IRC log of i18n on 2021-11-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:14 [RRSAgent]
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13:57:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:57:21 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
13:57:31 [addison]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:57:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:57:37 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:57:37 [trackbot]
Date: 04 November 2021
13:57:43 [agendabot]
13:57:43 [agendabot]
clear agenda
13:57:43 [agendabot]
agenda+ Agenda Review
13:57:43 [agendabot]
agenda+ Action Items
13:57:43 [agendabot]
agenda+ Info Share
13:57:45 [agendabot]
agenda+ RADAR Review
13:57:48 [agendabot]
agenda+ TPAC Fallout
13:57:48 [addison]
Chair: Addison Phillips
13:57:50 [agendabot]
agenda+ AOB?
13:58:09 [addison]
agenda+ Closing the loop on Payment Request
13:58:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
13:59:34 [addison]
topic #i18n Remember the time change!!
14:01:02 [r12a]
addison, i think you're an hour early
14:01:18 [r12a]
14:02:20 [r12a]
:-) good job !
14:07:49 [addison]
agenda+ What time is this meeting at?
14:07:54 [addison]
agenda+ Whither trackbot?
14:13:17 [atsushi]
atsushi has joined #i18n
14:16:22 [addison]
agenda+ security issues with bidi controls
14:17:18 [addison]
regrets+ Felix
14:38:37 [Najib]
Najib has joined #i18n
14:53:12 [xfq]
xfq has joined #i18n
14:54:59 [addison]
14:55:23 [addison]
present+ Fuqiao
15:01:12 [addison]
present+ Richard, Atsushi
15:01:27 [David]
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15:01:33 [JcK]
JcK has joined #i18n
15:02:09 [addison]
present+ David
15:02:19 [addison]
present+ Bert
15:02:52 [addison]
15:03:00 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:03:00 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:03:06 [Bert]
scribe: Bert
15:03:35 [addison]
agenda+ IFD review
15:03:36 [JcK]
present+ JcK
15:03:42 [Bert]
15:03:48 [addison]
zakim, agendum 2
15:03:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'agendum 2', addison
15:03:58 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 2
15:03:58 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:04:07 [addison]
15:04:38 [Bert]
15:04:38 [trackbot]
action-1034 -- Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN
15:04:38 [trackbot]
15:05:11 [addison]
15:05:11 [trackbot]
action-1090 -- Addison Phillips to Reach out to apa about potential joint publication of t2s ruby requirements with i18n -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN
15:05:11 [trackbot]
15:05:17 [addison]
close action-1090
15:05:17 [trackbot]
Closed action-1090.
15:05:36 [Bert]
15:05:36 [trackbot]
action-1091 -- Atsushi Shimono to Create repo for ruby t2s doc -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN
15:05:36 [trackbot]
15:05:42 [atsushi]
15:06:14 [addison]
present+ Fatima
15:06:20 [Bert]
atsushi: I did.
15:06:27 [addison]
close action-1091
15:06:27 [trackbot]
Closed action-1091.
15:06:35 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 3
15:06:35 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:40 [xfq]
15:06:48 [addison]
ack xfq
15:07:02 [xfq]
15:07:06 [Bert]
xfq: On Tuesday, Process 2021 was approved.
15:07:20 [Bert]
... There is a new registries track.
15:07:55 [Bert]
... But not required. Can also still make WDs and RECs.
15:08:34 [Bert]
... NOTEs track now separate from REC track. So NOTE drafts are not called WD anymore, but Note Draft.
15:08:58 [Bert]
... And a NOTE can be endorsed and become a Statement.
15:09:14 [r12a]
15:09:41 [Bert]
r12a: Sounds like what we tried to avoid by publishing NOTEs instead of RECs...
15:10:16 [Bert]
addison: Also interesting in the process: horizontal review for updating RECs is sketchily described.
15:10:45 [Bert]
... I hope we don't get any ‘I want to update my REC next week’ requests.
15:11:22 [Bert]
r12a: We need to talk more with Philippe and stress reviews at the start.
15:12:21 [Bert]
... URL vs URI, what is the reference for URIs?
15:12:32 [xfq]
s/Note Draft/Draft Note/
15:12:55 [Bert]
addison: The WHATWG spec on URL has a kind of profile for URI.
15:13:47 [Bert]
JcK: RFC 3986/3987 is maybe half, a little too focused on http.
15:14:06 [addison]
15:14:55 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 4
15:14:55 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:14:56 [Bert]
Next week is 11 Nov, Armistice 1918 in France and the US.
15:15:02 [addison]
15:15:27 [Bert]
addison: No new review requests.
15:16:03 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 8
15:16:03 [Zakim]
agendum 8 -- What time is this meeting at? -- taken up [from addison]
15:16:06 [Bert]
... I'll need to move the comments of Payment Confirmation, which we decided last time.
15:16:27 [Bert]
addison: Current time OK?
15:17:13 [Bert]
david_clarke: time OK for now, but not sure what my new job will be like.
15:18:04 [addison],384
15:18:45 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 9
15:18:45 [Zakim]
agendum 9 -- Whither trackbot? -- taken up [from addison]
15:18:56 [r12a]
15:19:30 [Bert]
addison: Trackbot is being deprecated. GitHub is recommended. How do we do action items now?
15:20:05 [Bert]
trackbot, help?
15:20:05 [trackbot]
Please see <> for help.
15:20:20 [addison]
15:21:46 [Bert]
David_clarke: 16 years. Long-running software is good.
15:22:10 [Bert]
xfq: If we still use it, they will still support it.
15:22:21 [addison]
15:22:43 [Bert]
r12a: That warning on the IRC page seems to have been there since 4 month. So we not be in imminent dager.
15:23:25 [Bert]
addison: Trackbot integration with IRC is nice. Could use a GitHub project board, but...
15:23:34 [r12a]
s/So we not be in/So we may not be in/
15:23:36 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 11
15:23:36 [Zakim]
agendum 11 -- IFD review -- taken up [from addison]
15:23:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
15:23:57 [atsushi]
15:24:13 [atsushi]
15:24:32 [Bert]
atsushi: spec based on a report.
15:24:53 [Bert]
... They tried to transfer per glyph, not code point.
15:25:19 [Bert]
... This spec tries to transfer code points.
15:25:31 [Bert]
... But seems not to be working.
15:25:56 [Bert]
... Some fonts have dedicated glyphs.
15:26:46 [Bert]
addison: Maybe if they also transfer all code points related to a given code point...
15:27:23 [Bert]
atsushi: Maybe we should ask them.
15:28:25 [Bert]
r12a: Chris and Myles [spec editors] should be aware of the issue.
15:29:01 [Bert]
addison: In indic scripts, e.g., you may need all the vowel-marked and conjuncts.
15:29:28 [r12a]
15:30:13 [Bert]
... I don't quite see how this can be used. Maybe for simple fonts, when code point = glyph.
15:31:06 [Bert]
r12a: The report shows some arabic glyphs. I cannot remember what my conclusions were when I read it :-(
15:31:42 [Bert]
addison: The report contains the sort of things we talked about, so they do know.
15:32:15 [Bert]
r12a: Then conclusion (section 6) has something.
15:32:31 [Bert]
15:33:35 [Bert]
addison: What does the last para, about massive cost increase, mean?
15:33:50 [Bert]
david_clarke: Network latency?
15:34:58 [Bert]
atsushi: compared to rendering time [scribe missed]
15:35:12 [Bert]
addison: Do we have a question to ask them?
15:36:13 [Bert]
r12a: Seems good to have a section about its usage. Although it does already point to the report.
15:37:14 [Bert]
... Maybe a summary of the report can be added to set the scope of the spec. It seems it is not to be used for scripts that need shaping, e.g.
15:37:56 [Bert]
xfq: It says there will be a separate document for other methods than Patch.
15:38:32 [Bert]
david_clarke: There may be an issue with fingerprinting: if you download specific pieces of a font.
15:39:10 [Bert]
r12a: Yes, that makes sense, for some kinds of small content.
15:40:00 [xfq]
Privacy section is entirely missing ->
15:40:58 [Bert]
atsushi: Web fonts and caching, may be hard to fingerprint.
15:41:33 [Bert]
addison: But I can place a rare glyph in a page and if you request it, I know you looked at the page.
15:41:53 [Bert]
... atsush, do you want to draft comments? Do you need help?
15:42:22 [xfq]
15:42:37 [Bert]
atsushi: I would first ask why they choose to base it on code points rather than glyphs. I can draft a comment on GitHub.
15:43:16 [Bert]
... I will add it to our tracker.
15:43:39 [Bert]
addison: Don't wait to send it to them.
15:44:00 [Bert]
... Should we raise a fingerprinting issue?
15:44:29 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 7
15:44:29 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- Closing the loop on Payment Request -- taken up [from addison]
15:44:34 [r12a]
15:44:40 [Bert]
r12a: We could, but maybe not as a WG, as it is a security question [not i18n] question.
15:45:42 [Bert]
r12a: pull request adds a note that seems to say all we asked for.
15:46:13 [Bert]
addison: Might avoid the word ‘may’, as it is a technical term.
15:47:20 [Bert]
r12a: I'd prefer not to avoid ‘may’ and rather style it specially when used normatively.
15:47:41 [Bert]
xfq: As a note, it is non-normative in essence.
15:48:32 [Bert]
addison: Shall I do a review and comment and approve?
15:48:41 [Bert]
r12a: Yes, I think so.
15:49:21 [Bert]
addison: Language negotiation is a separate thing.
15:49:37 [Bert]
r12a: And we don't expect to resolve that before they publish this.
15:49:39 [addison]
15:49:53 [Bert]
addison: OK, I will approve it then.
15:50:21 [addison]
action: addison: file review approving payment request text plus personal comment on 'may'
15:50:22 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1092 - File review approving payment request text plus personal comment on 'may' [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].
15:50:46 [addison]
action: addison: ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg
15:50:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1093 - Ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].
15:53:01 [Bert]
addison: We should talk to TC39 about a datatype for localizable string. That's a slow process. Should I start it?
15:54:23 [Bert]
Discussion about the words localization vs localizable vs internationalization.
15:54:27 [addison]
action: addison: start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work
15:54:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1094 - Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].
15:54:42 [addison]
15:55:34 [Bert]
addison: r12, was there a response from Alan on CSS?
15:55:42 [Bert]
15:55:56 [Bert]
... I reserved a slot in my agenda.
15:56:18 [Bert]
Thanksgiving is the 25th.
15:56:57 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 6
15:56:57 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:58:23 [Bert]
Zakim, end meeting
15:58:23 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been addison, Fuqiao, Richard, Atsushi, David, Bert, JcK, Fatima, r12a
15:58:26 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:58:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Zakim
15:58:29 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, Bert; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
15:58:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
16:01:32 [Najib]
Najib has left #i18n
16:01:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
16:09:30 [r12a]
s/<r12a> addison, i think you're an hour early//
16:09:41 [r12a]
s/<r12a> :-) good job !//
16:09:49 [r12a]
s/<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference//
16:10:03 [r12a]
s/<addison> topic #i18n Remember the time change!!//
16:10:10 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:10:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate r12a
16:12:13 [r12a]
s/addison, i think you're an hour early//
16:12:16 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:12:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate r12a
16:12:41 [r12a]
s/trackbot, prepare teleconference//
16:13:00 [r12a]
s/ :-) good job !//
16:13:03 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:13:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate r12a
16:13:32 [r12a]
s/ :-) good job !//
16:13:38 [r12a]
s/:-) good job !//
16:13:42 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:13:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate r12a