IRC log of i18n on 2021-11-04
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:57:14 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18n
- 13:57:14 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-irc
- 13:57:21 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #i18n
- 13:57:31 [addison]
- trackbot, prepare teleconference
- 13:57:34 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:57:37 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
- 13:57:37 [trackbot]
- Date: 04 November 2021
- 13:57:43 [agendabot]
- agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0003.html
- 13:57:43 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 13:57:43 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Agenda Review
- 13:57:43 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Action Items
- 13:57:43 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Info Share
- 13:57:45 [agendabot]
- agenda+ RADAR Review
- 13:57:48 [agendabot]
- agenda+ TPAC Fallout
- 13:57:48 [addison]
- Chair: Addison Phillips
- 13:57:50 [agendabot]
- agenda+ AOB?
- 13:58:09 [addison]
- agenda+ Closing the loop on Payment Request
- 13:58:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 13:59:34 [addison]
- topic #i18n Remember the time change!!
- 14:01:02 [r12a]
- addison, i think you're an hour early
- 14:01:18 [r12a]
- see https://www.w3.org/2017/09/i18n-meeting-info.html
- 14:02:20 [r12a]
- :-) good job !
- 14:07:49 [addison]
- agenda+ What time is this meeting at?
- 14:07:54 [addison]
- agenda+ Whither trackbot?
- 14:13:17 [atsushi]
- atsushi has joined #i18n
- 14:16:22 [addison]
- agenda+ security issues with bidi controls
- 14:17:18 [addison]
- regrets+ Felix
- 14:38:37 [Najib]
- Najib has joined #i18n
- 14:53:12 [xfq]
- xfq has joined #i18n
- 14:54:59 [addison]
- present+
- 14:55:23 [addison]
- present+ Fuqiao
- 15:01:12 [addison]
- present+ Richard, Atsushi
- 15:01:27 [David]
- David has joined #I18n
- 15:01:33 [JcK]
- JcK has joined #i18n
- 15:02:09 [addison]
- present+ David
- 15:02:19 [addison]
- present+ Bert
- 15:02:52 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:03:00 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 15:03:00 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:03:06 [Bert]
- scribe: Bert
- 15:03:35 [addison]
- agenda+ IFD review
- 15:03:36 [JcK]
- present+ JcK
- 15:03:42 [Bert]
- present+
- 15:03:48 [addison]
- zakim, agendum 2
- 15:03:48 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'agendum 2', addison
- 15:03:58 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 15:03:58 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:04:07 [addison]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
- 15:04:38 [Bert]
- action-1034?
- 15:04:38 [trackbot]
- action-1034 -- Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN
- 15:04:38 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1034
- 15:05:11 [addison]
- action-1090?
- 15:05:11 [trackbot]
- action-1090 -- Addison Phillips to Reach out to apa about potential joint publication of t2s ruby requirements with i18n -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN
- 15:05:11 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1090
- 15:05:17 [addison]
- close action-1090
- 15:05:17 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1090.
- 15:05:36 [Bert]
- action-1091?
- 15:05:36 [trackbot]
- action-1091 -- Atsushi Shimono to Create repo for ruby t2s doc -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN
- 15:05:36 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1091
- 15:05:42 [atsushi]
- https://w3c.github.io/ruby-t2s-req/
- 15:06:14 [addison]
- present+ Fatima
- 15:06:20 [Bert]
- atsushi: I did.
- 15:06:27 [addison]
- close action-1091
- 15:06:27 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1091.
- 15:06:35 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 15:06:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:06:40 [xfq]
- q+
- 15:06:48 [addison]
- ack xfq
- 15:07:02 [xfq]
- https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#changes-2020
- 15:07:06 [Bert]
- xfq: On Tuesday, Process 2021 was approved.
- 15:07:20 [Bert]
- ... There is a new registries track.
- 15:07:55 [Bert]
- ... But not required. Can also still make WDs and RECs.
- 15:08:34 [Bert]
- ... NOTEs track now separate from REC track. So NOTE drafts are not called WD anymore, but Note Draft.
- 15:08:58 [Bert]
- ... And a NOTE can be endorsed and become a Statement.
- 15:09:14 [r12a]
- present+
- 15:09:41 [Bert]
- r12a: Sounds like what we tried to avoid by publishing NOTEs instead of RECs...
- 15:10:16 [Bert]
- addison: Also interesting in the process: horizontal review for updating RECs is sketchily described.
- 15:10:45 [Bert]
- ... I hope we don't get any ‘I want to update my REC next week’ requests.
- 15:11:22 [Bert]
- r12a: We need to talk more with Philippe and stress reviews at the start.
- 15:12:21 [Bert]
- ... URL vs URI, what is the reference for URIs?
- 15:12:32 [xfq]
- s/Note Draft/Draft Note/
- 15:12:55 [Bert]
- addison: The WHATWG spec on URL has a kind of profile for URI.
- 15:13:47 [Bert]
- JcK: RFC 3986/3987 is maybe half, a little too focused on http.
- 15:14:06 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:14:55 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 15:14:55 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:14:56 [Bert]
- Next week is 11 Nov, Armistice 1918 in France and the US.
- 15:15:02 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
- 15:15:27 [Bert]
- addison: No new review requests.
- 15:16:03 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 8
- 15:16:03 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- What time is this meeting at? -- taken up [from addison]
- 15:16:06 [Bert]
- ... I'll need to move the comments of Payment Confirmation, which we decided last time.
- 15:16:27 [Bert]
- addison: Current time OK?
- 15:17:13 [Bert]
- david_clarke: time OK for now, but not sure what my new job will be like.
- 15:18:04 [addison]
- https://everytimezone.com/?t=61832280,384
- 15:18:45 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 9
- 15:18:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 9 -- Whither trackbot? -- taken up [from addison]
- 15:18:56 [r12a]
- https://www.w3.org/2017/09/i18n-meeting-info.html
- 15:19:30 [Bert]
- addison: Trackbot is being deprecated. GitHub is recommended. How do we do action items now?
- 15:20:05 [Bert]
- trackbot, help?
- 15:20:05 [trackbot]
- Please see <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
- 15:20:20 [addison]
- https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
- 15:21:46 [Bert]
- David_clarke: 16 years. Long-running software is good.
- 15:22:10 [Bert]
- xfq: If we still use it, they will still support it.
- 15:22:21 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:22:43 [Bert]
- r12a: That warning on the IRC page seems to have been there since 4 month. So we not be in imminent dager.
- 15:23:25 [Bert]
- addison: Trackbot integration with IRC is nice. Could use a GitHub project board, but...
- 15:23:34 [r12a]
- s/So we not be in/So we may not be in/
- 15:23:36 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 11
- 15:23:36 [Zakim]
- agendum 11 -- IFD review -- taken up [from addison]
- 15:23:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 15:23:57 [atsushi]
- https://w3c.github.io/IFT/Overview.html
- 15:24:13 [atsushi]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/
- 15:24:32 [Bert]
- atsushi: spec based on a report.
- 15:24:53 [Bert]
- ... They tried to transfer per glyph, not code point.
- 15:25:19 [Bert]
- ... This spec tries to transfer code points.
- 15:25:31 [Bert]
- ... But seems not to be working.
- 15:25:56 [Bert]
- ... Some fonts have dedicated glyphs.
- 15:26:46 [Bert]
- addison: Maybe if they also transfer all code points related to a given code point...
- 15:27:23 [Bert]
- atsushi: Maybe we should ask them.
- 15:28:25 [Bert]
- r12a: Chris and Myles [spec editors] should be aware of the issue.
- 15:29:01 [Bert]
- addison: In indic scripts, e.g., you may need all the vowel-marked and conjuncts.
- 15:29:28 [r12a]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/
- 15:30:13 [Bert]
- ... I don't quite see how this can be used. Maybe for simple fonts, when code point = glyph.
- 15:31:06 [Bert]
- r12a: The report shows some arabic glyphs. I cannot remember what my conclusions were when I read it :-(
- 15:31:42 [Bert]
- addison: The report contains the sort of things we talked about, so they do know.
- 15:32:15 [Bert]
- r12a: Then conclusion (section 6) has something.
- 15:32:31 [Bert]
- s/Then/The/
- 15:33:35 [Bert]
- addison: What does the last para, about massive cost increase, mean?
- 15:33:50 [Bert]
- david_clarke: Network latency?
- 15:34:58 [Bert]
- atsushi: compared to rendering time [scribe missed]
- 15:35:12 [Bert]
- addison: Do we have a question to ask them?
- 15:36:13 [Bert]
- r12a: Seems good to have a section about its usage. Although it does already point to the report.
- 15:37:14 [Bert]
- ... Maybe a summary of the report can be added to set the scope of the spec. It seems it is not to be used for scripts that need shaping, e.g.
- 15:37:56 [Bert]
- xfq: It says there will be a separate document for other methods than Patch.
- 15:38:32 [Bert]
- david_clarke: There may be an issue with fingerprinting: if you download specific pieces of a font.
- 15:39:10 [Bert]
- r12a: Yes, that makes sense, for some kinds of small content.
- 15:40:00 [xfq]
- Privacy section is entirely missing -> https://github.com/w3c/IFT/issues/31
- 15:40:58 [Bert]
- atsushi: Web fonts and caching, may be hard to fingerprint.
- 15:41:33 [Bert]
- addison: But I can place a rare glyph in a page and if you request it, I know you looked at the page.
- 15:41:53 [Bert]
- ... atsush, do you want to draft comments? Do you need help?
- 15:42:22 [xfq]
- s/atsush/atsushi/
- 15:42:37 [Bert]
- atsushi: I would first ask why they choose to base it on code points rather than glyphs. I can draft a comment on GitHub.
- 15:43:16 [Bert]
- ... I will add it to our tracker.
- 15:43:39 [Bert]
- addison: Don't wait to send it to them.
- 15:44:00 [Bert]
- ... Should we raise a fingerprinting issue?
- 15:44:29 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 7
- 15:44:29 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- Closing the loop on Payment Request -- taken up [from addison]
- 15:44:34 [r12a]
- https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/971/files
- 15:44:40 [Bert]
- r12a: We could, but maybe not as a WG, as it is a security question [not i18n] question.
- 15:45:42 [Bert]
- r12a: pull request adds a note that seems to say all we asked for.
- 15:46:13 [Bert]
- addison: Might avoid the word ‘may’, as it is a technical term.
- 15:47:20 [Bert]
- r12a: I'd prefer not to avoid ‘may’ and rather style it specially when used normatively.
- 15:47:41 [Bert]
- xfq: As a note, it is non-normative in essence.
- 15:48:32 [Bert]
- addison: Shall I do a review and comment and approve?
- 15:48:41 [Bert]
- r12a: Yes, I think so.
- 15:49:21 [Bert]
- addison: Language negotiation is a separate thing.
- 15:49:37 [Bert]
- r12a: And we don't expect to resolve that before they publish this.
- 15:49:39 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:49:53 [Bert]
- addison: OK, I will approve it then.
- 15:50:21 [addison]
- action: addison: file review approving payment request text plus personal comment on 'may'
- 15:50:22 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1092 - File review approving payment request text plus personal comment on 'may' [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].
- 15:50:46 [addison]
- action: addison: ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg
- 15:50:46 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1093 - Ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].
- 15:53:01 [Bert]
- addison: We should talk to TC39 about a datatype for localizable string. That's a slow process. Should I start it?
- 15:54:23 [Bert]
- Discussion about the words localization vs localizable vs internationalization.
- 15:54:27 [addison]
- action: addison: start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work
- 15:54:27 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1094 - Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].
- 15:54:42 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:55:34 [Bert]
- addison: r12, was there a response from Alan on CSS?
- 15:55:42 [Bert]
- s/r12/r12a/
- 15:55:56 [Bert]
- ... I reserved a slot in my agenda.
- 15:56:18 [Bert]
- Thanksgiving is the 25th.
- 15:56:57 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 6
- 15:56:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:58:23 [Bert]
- Zakim, end meeting
- 15:58:23 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been addison, Fuqiao, Richard, Atsushi, David, Bert, JcK, Fatima, r12a
- 15:58:26 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 15:58:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html Zakim
- 15:58:29 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, Bert; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 15:58:33 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18n
- 16:01:32 [Najib]
- Najib has left #i18n
- 16:01:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 16:09:30 [r12a]
- s/<r12a> addison, i think you're an hour early//
- 16:09:41 [r12a]
- s/<r12a> :-) good job !//
- 16:09:49 [r12a]
- s/<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference//
- 16:10:03 [r12a]
- s/<addison> topic #i18n Remember the time change!!//
- 16:10:10 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:10:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html r12a
- 16:12:13 [r12a]
- s/addison, i think you're an hour early//
- 16:12:16 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:12:16 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html r12a
- 16:12:41 [r12a]
- s/trackbot, prepare teleconference//
- 16:13:00 [r12a]
- s/ :-) good job !//
- 16:13:03 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:13:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html r12a
- 16:13:32 [r12a]
- s/ :-) good job !//
- 16:13:38 [r12a]
- s/:-) good job !//
- 16:13:42 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:13:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html r12a