Smart Cities Workshop

25 June 2021


See the Attendees list.
Carl, Daihei, Kaz
Philip_Tran-GovTech, Peter_Lee-BSI, Cristiano_A_Unibo, Kaz_Ashimura-W3C, Karen_Myers-W3C

Meeting minutes

Session 1

Scene Setting

kaz walk through the scene setting

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C>Scene Setting slides

CW: share his view on smart cities and the barriers in creating the digital infrastructure for smart cities..
… and how we can solve these challenges to improve people's lives.

Summary of the current status of Smart Cities - Use cases

Heng Qian's slides

HQ: presents THE


Peter: presents Smarter Suffolk case study

Kaz: discussing on the proposed IG charter

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ISO/IEC JTC1

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ISO, IEC

<Xueyuan_Jia-W3C> [Draft] Charter for the potential Smart Cities Interest Group

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> 3 groups on smart cities there

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> BSI

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ETSI

HQ: 3 entities to be included in 4.2: ISO/IEC JTC1

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> clarify W3C's role within the complicated environment

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> quantity of standards is also tough

Peter: recommend analysis is done around the use cases...

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> analysis should be done based on use cases

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> data governance is one of the keys

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> international standards vs national ones

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> privacy standards/control is also important

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> about who we trust

<Kotis_UoA_> trust is important! highly agree

CW: privacy standards and controls are important

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> e.g., connected cars and public transport services

CW: last-mile connection for transport from home to train station etc...

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> should consider which areas to be included

CW: how to integrate private transport and public transport to solve the last-mile challenge.

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> data interoperability is also the key

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> recommend some high-level data categorization

<Kotis_UoA_> how to represent 'trust' and how to compute 'trust' is a key topic, especially in highly heterogeneous smart environments (semantic interoperability?)

Peter: high level data grouping and schema to provide consistent metadata

<Carl_Ward_-_AWS> +1 on the interoperability - I would add we have moved from having to fix everything to fixing meta-data standards. See how the way data lakes have evolved from standard schemas to dumps of all data with the ability to mine and link dynamically.

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> how to get agreement among various stakeholders is important

Daihei: agreement among the stakeholders

Daihei: point out the leadership issue.

Xiaomi: standardization collaboration

<Kotis_UoA_> a unique standard (at schema level) is probably a 'dream'. Alignment on semantics (schema) and data is probably a more realistic solution (but hard to implement)

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> many detailed viewpoints for data governance should be considered

Xiaomi: need a framework for data governance

<Kotis_UoA_> Especially, if schema/ontology alignment is performed in real-time (on-the-fly)... is this possible? What vendors think about this?

Needs and possible solutions for Web-based Smart Cities

Sebastian Kaebisch's slides

Sebastian: presents the Needs and possible solutions for Web-based Smart Cities

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> agenda page

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Video page

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> (Kaz provided some supplementary information above)

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Sebastian rejoins and starts his talk

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Slides

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Draft IG Charter

Kaz: what is missing here in the IG charter?

SK: action points, landscape, technologies already used in Smart Cities to provide a good overview of what is already available.

<Karen_Myers-W3C> +1 Overview/landscape of smart city scenarios and what standards are used

Kaz: what is the expectation for the technology landscape document?

SK: provide a nice overview of use cases, technologies, stakeholders etc.

SK: basic problems independent of the standards such as integration.

<Karen_Myers-W3C> +1 please clarify W3C's role

CW: important to agree on the WOT standards and standardized models.

SK: existing protocols and standards have their own history and reasons.

<Kotis_UoA_> +1 standars on metadata (ontologies)

Peter: W3C to look more on the user interfaces and consumption layers.

Peter: the UI and the user experience.

Cross-cutting issues for Smart Cities

Sisay Chala's slides

Sisay: presents Privacy-Aware Information Base in the Context of Smart Cities

balance between privacy vs usability

e.g., for geolocation data

need to remember existing legal framework, e.g., regulations like GDPR

<Kotis_UoA_> @sisay: how trust is modeled in approach?

<Carl_Ward_-_AWS> Request is to have standard approaches to location privacy including ability to delete history. Tokenisation is used for PII but no standard for location.

<brinkwoman> https://www.w3.org/TR/responsible-use-spatial/

geolocation group and OGC to be considered for liaison

draft IG Charter

<Kotis_UoA_> I belive trust (modeling and computing) of IoT entities (sensors, actuators, devices, users, processes) in Smart Cities is important issue for the Special Group to research.

if the user knows it's safe, they can disclose their information, but how to do so?

legal treatment also needed

nice balance between privacy protection and usability

<Kotis_UoA_> well, there are several scenarios where devices must expose data, but no users are related directly to them e.g., traffic lights?

pollution data collected on the cloud

<Karen_Myers-W3C> Karen_Myers-W3C: could you please clarify the types of devices data is coming from and what permissions/controls users have over these different devices generating data?

kaz: should be clarified based on some concrete use case scenario.


kaz: not only data transfer but also combination of data and entity
… should be considered
… national and international liaisons
… requirements based on concrete use cases
… overview and landscape about existing standards, systems
… balance of usability and privacy protection
… sensitive information like geolocation information and time information
… clarify the role of W3C
… digestable and easy to use interfaces
… accessibility
… data governance

carl: digital infrastructure
… not only the location information but as a whole mechanism and service

daihei: not particularly to be aded

kaz: W3C internal collaborations

draft charter

heng: the scope section says

<Carl_Ward_-_AWS> Maybe the point that Sebastien raised on the philosophy of the standards - eg data standards vs meta standards - meta standards being more flexible.

heng: Identification of Smart City use cases to which web technologies are applicable;
… Identification prioritization of gaps in web standards for Smart City use cases;

sk: Web technology is broader like Internet technology

kaz: probably we should add clarification here

sk: also relationship with Web browser technology

kaz: we got a list of important points and requirements from the discussion, thanks a lot!

carl: thanks a lot for your participation!

daihei: on behalf of the whole this workshop, I also would like to express my gratitude :)

[ session 1 adjourned; session 2 starts in 4 hours ]

Session 2

present2+ Kaz_Ashimura-W3C, Timcy_Aggarwal-W3C

present2+ Daihei_Shiohama-MediaDo, Michael_McCool-Intel, Karen_Myers-W3C



<Dave_McComb-SemArts> I'm in the zoom lobby, is there something else I need to do?

<Pepe> exit

<Jerome_Blum-ECLASS> Is the Zoom link for the second session the same as for the first session?

<Josh_OGC> Good day to all.

Scene Setting

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> slides

kaz explaining the history of the discussion of Smart Cities in OGC we have focused a lot on defining location and how it can impact Smart Cities applicationsw3c

kaz: we need a dedicated w3c IG group becase the field has a lot of stackholders
… the goal of the workshop is to improve the draft document

kaz explanining logistics for the call

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> draft IG Charter

kaz giving the floor to JoshLiberman

Summary of the current status of Smart Cities - Use cases

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Josh's slides

JL: thank you for organizing this workshop

JL: in
… OGC have defined a specific term when discussing Digital Twins in Smart Cites: Urban Digital Twins
… DT in smart cities are much more complicated than the classical definition
… mostly because of the role of spece/time information
… an important aspect in Smart Cities is the balance between social and physical

kaz: thank you! the next speaker Daihei

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Daihei's slides

Daihei: please check the full video
… digital transformation is impacting also publishing industry
… currently lifestyle is already coexisting with digital
… so why not also the publishing process?
… physical bookstore has benifits (chatting, meeting, experience ...)
… in the meantime we can enhance the publishing culture thanks to web tech
… with the goal to revive physical bookstores
… we are already doing this in Japan

<Josh_OGC> Already many people do not bother with “how to” books and just look at Youtube videos. I wonder if there is more of a convergence possible.

Daihei: NFT can play a role in enhancing paying physical books
… like having one special token connected to the real product

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> draft IG Charter

kaz: thank you seems we should add some retail specific use case to our draft document

kaz showing the draft IG document

kaz: what is missing?

JL: geospatial information is critical, but the physical space is not the only space that matter. We need a social model for space

Daihei: how do we integrate tech to media publishing? What is the role of Web of Things?
… we need to discuss this in the charter

kaz: yeah agree

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ak m

mc: what are the opportunities around media sharing in physical word?
… and how this going to impact the social life?

<Josh_OGC> My feeling is that the publish a book / pay the author / get money for copies is already an obsolete paradigm between fan fiction, conventions-meetings, multiple media, etc.

Daihei: during covid of course it was difficult to evaluate NFT solution. But now that they are open again we trying to create a cycling experience between books-and-digital

<Josh_OGC> A paradigm that captures all of these activities around literature in a broad sense seems possible but really needs to be evolved.

mc: sometime media are social events (concerts etc.)
… how technology would help this process?

<Jerome_Blum-ECLASS> Interesting point @Josh. I feel that the music industry tried very early on to find ways to truly modernise the consumer experience

mc: social aspect is really important

<Josh_OGC> Music is a good lesson -- songs -> concerts -> videos -> social media -> songs

<Josh_OGC> Tourism to the real or imagined geography of artistic works is a real thing as well.

kaz: I agree, in general we need to think about social aspect and relation between digital and physical

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> UX regardless of physical location

A while ago I met a guy that studied mixed virtual/phisical concerts thanks to smart instruments and feedback devices for viewers

it called this Internet of Musical things, it might be intresting

<Josh_OGC> Watch parties!

mc: summarizing we need a section talking about the social aspects in the document
… also we need to enable smaller interaction, small groups enjoying a digital media

Takio: maybe people want just to buy an e-book. So digital advertainments may be used in the bookstores

<Josh_OGC> The essential value of a bookstore these days is really curation and social interaction (as well as the coffee bar...)

Takio: and book keepers could be rewarded for purchases of the e-book advertised.

Summary of the current status of Smart Cities - Existing standards

Jerome's slides

Jerome: ECLASS has an hierarchical standard for data
… we support 16 different languages
… our working group is trying to bring ECLASS to RDF with the goal to be used in a WoT Thing Description
… how can we build trust ?
… we aligned in world wide standards so we can be used in different contexts

mc: you mention wot, we are in meet with ECLASS. About trust there's Solid platform which could help

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> draft IG Charter

<McCool-Intel> also ISO CDD and JTC/1

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ISO, IEC and ISO/IEC JTC1

kaz: we should introduce trust for data management in the draft document then

Needs and possible solutions for Web-based Smart Cities

McCool's slides

mm: let me focus on WoT now
… would avoid reinvention for IoT
… mechanism to describe existing models
… smart city use cases there
… visitor guidance, energy management, health, retail services
… managing accessibility, etc., as well
… a lot of issues with personal data
… a lot of use cases there
… discussing new Charter for WoT too
… so good timing

josh: point of connection?
… smart cities, wot and spatial
… W3C, OGC and others to work on the relationship?

mm: virtual entity can be DT or services
… generally discovery of services is one of the key things
… for physical services, geolocation is important

josh: digital is representation for physical

mm: location matters your point of view

<J_Lu-HelpfulPlaces> the unifying interface across these dimensions is actually the person

mm: need to be more flexible

<J_Lu-HelpfulPlaces> that's the perspective at which all these dimensions meet

jerome: need to work on that area

mm: yeah, via collaboration with OGC

jerome: how to smartify the service
… as a human being in everyday life

j_Lu: human-centric view to be considered
… some sort of hybrid mechanism

<McCool-Intel> right... who is it FOR

<Josh_OGC> "Things": it is important to understand that latitude-longitude is not the only representation of space that OGC is concerned with. Logistics networks, social spaces such as neighborhoods are also geospatial but a different conception of space.

j_Lu: need to solve communication problem as well

kaz: tx, you can talk about the detail later

<McCool-Intel> also, "service" can be understood as a spatial-temporal transaction

daihei: question about the smart city uc
… do you see from the viewpoint of wot, some sort of governance
… should be governed by some specific entity?
… or not

mm: may applications involved multiple domains
… parking, fire services, ...
… different groups within a city
… and not necessarily coordinated with each other

<Josh_OGC> IoT challenge - multiple use <-> appropriate use, e.g. use a camera for parking and traffic light coordination, but not facial recognition.

daihei: organized by the government?

mm: unified mechanism for data management expected
… we should think about city as a social place as well

daihei: social conflict is one of the problems

kaz: who/how to manage the data transfer

mm: yeah, who manages it and how to store data

kaz: that kind of data handling model to be included

Jacqueline's slides

jl: public transportation in NY
… reduction in trust
… opensource communication standard activity, DTPR
… how the environment works for you
… not standard yet but prototype at the moment
… field test in Boston
… across physical and data

<J_Lu-HelpfulPlaces> https://dtpr.helpfulplaces.com/#section-vision

<McCool-Intel> - just want to say that I think the icons for DTPR are a great idea, similar to the idea of "ingredients" I have seen

<J_Lu-HelpfulPlaces> also we are planning to recruit a cohort of pilots in multiple locations to test this protocol this fall

<Josh_OGC> Jackie, we should talk! "Find out more about [geospatial data] ( and [building information models] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_information_modeling)" --https://dtpr.helpfulplaces.com

McComb's slides

dm: enterprise and smart cities
… similar vs different
… 10 x 1000 of silos there

<J_Lu-HelpfulPlaces> Josh my background is geo so would love to chat! and Michael McCool thanks for that feedback, would love to learn more about what else you have seen in your work

dm: simplicity is the ultimate sophistication
… writing codes is generating bugs

draft IG Charter

<Josh_OGC> @J_Lu-HelpfulPlaces - one interesting point of contact may be GeoPose (https://www.ogc.org/projects/groups/geoposeswg)

kaz: what is missing?
… OGC to be added to the liaison group

josh: yes :)
… place functionality
… geopose is positioning
… what can I see if I stand here, etc.

jl: interesting
… definitely like the idea
… excited with embedded technology
… what is a place-based api, etc.?
… what type of social interaction to be done
… point of entry for extensibility
… human-centric approach

kaz: human-centric approach and location-awareness?

josh: are you walking? in a group? , etc.
… connected to what you're

mm: service as a transaction
… who is involved in the transaction?
… that kind of information to be communicated
… also time-series data to be maintained

jenn: working with City of Tronto
… where the gas is actually consumed, etc.
… interfaces to describe different situations

<Josh_OGC> @jenn: c.f. OGC MUDDI and BEMA initiatives - what is known and what is shared...

jenn: you can use the rules to make sure aggregation

<Josh_OGC> Scale matters...

josh: huge problem there

jenn: addressing problem

mm: interesting point with water management
… simulation system for backing up

kaz: what to be added to the IG Charter fo that purpose?

mm: idea of coordinating with multiple data pool
… sensor data and simulator data and historical data
… city as the social spaces
… details to be discussed on GitHub

jl: happy to contribute

<Jenn_McArthur-RU> scope element: develop aggregation approaches for reconciling heterogeneous data; should also consider privacy protection in this aggregation

josh: privacy asset is one of the keys
… data leak of information from the city
… also privacy enhancement

mm: could add subsections to make specific focus

cpn: privacy issue
… emphasized human-centric approach

<brinkwoman> On fuzzy location: https://www.w3.org/2020/maps/supporting-material-uploads/presentations/Thijs_Brentjens/fuzzy-geolocation/index.html

cpn: want to see it emphasized in the charter

Cross-cutting issues for Smart Cities

Dahl's slides

dd: intelligent user interfaces

dd: conversational interfaces
… for visitors of smart cities

<Josh_OGC> There are current multi-billion-dollar bets that AR / XR is the next user interface.

josh: what about AR/VR interfaces?

dd: didn't particularly in this context but interesting point

<J_Lu-HelpfulPlaces> i appreciate Deborah's presentation that different people will need different types of interfaces. for DTPR we actually had also prototyped a chatbot version so where people could ask questions about the digital systems in that place

dd: tremendously useful

mm: need to consider what device to be used
… also which city

dd: yeah, that's important
… standardizing UI across cities is challenging

mm: icon-based approach could be a starting point

josh: I can go to various cities
… more personalized UI and standardized UI would be great

jl: yeah, various modalities
… based on personal preference

dd: have been working on multimodal interaction and voice within W3C
… interoperability of different platforms is important

draft IG Charter

dd: certain issue for developing world?

mm: different priorities depending on different cities

kaz: that kind of viewpoint to be considered
… what about liaison/collaboration?

dd: voice interaction CG and open voice network

Web-based revisited

Andrea's slides

ac: can touch some of the points already mentioned :)
… smart communities born from the necessity of integrating smart cities
… data involvement in multiple domains
… various domains
… data production/consumption
… people, sensors, IoT infrastructures, smart objects
… different data syntax and models
… how to get semantic interoperability?
… note it needs to be considered before implementing the system
… possible components from W3C standards
… SAREF ontology from ETSI as well
… Solid mechanism for privacy handling
… rely on decentralized solutions based on standards
… the solution should be user-centric


kaz: several topics to be added to the scope section
… any idea on the liaison groups?

ac: nothing specific at the moment

kaz: any other comments?

daihei: thank you, all!
… let's continue the discussion during the 3rd session in 11 hours!

[ session 2 adjourned; session 3 in 10 h and 45 min ]

Session 3

Scene Setting

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C>Scene Setting slides

Kaz: Shall we start, Daihei?

Daihei: yes
… Do you want me to start?

Daihei: thank you very much for joining sessions number three of the Smart Cities Workshop
… we have already done it twice, this is third time
… My name is Daihei Shiohama, I'm chairing together with Smart Cities Champion Kaz Ashimura
… I represent my company, MediaDo based in San Diego, CA
… and I'm also representing publishing in Japan
… I will hand it over to you, Kaz

Kaz: thank you very much for joining
… Please use your First Name_Last Name-Company Name convention for Zoom and irc channel
… Let's get started
… here is the agenda
… First of all, why we are holding this workshop
… In the beginning, two years ago
… there was another W3C workshop on Web of Things topic
… and there were some smart cities topics for web technologies and standardization
… In 2020 the WoT working group
… started a discussion about smart cities and started a use cases document
… and there were discussions during TPAC W3C general meeting
… we got some input from that session
… So we have started to draft a charter for an Interest Group for Smart Cities
… Smart Cities have various stakeholders and activities
… we are really trying to get governments, vendors, community, SDOs from various technical areas
… so next out of this workshop
… we are going to refine the charter and continue to build use cases and requirements

[slide 3]
… As I mentioned, there are many stakeholders
… so we want another dedicated discussion group for smart cities

[slide 4]
… so we will look at use cases, requirements and this may lead to chartering a new working group
… in this last session we will discuss what is missing in the proposed interest group charter document
… look at what is in scope, what to be improved
… We are holding three sessions and this is the last session
… Some notes about today
… for your login on Zoom
… please use "First_name Last-name- Company name"

Kaz: Karen is taking notes on the irc system, thank you
… and the session is being recorded
… you are encouraged to do "q+" as above to ask a question or make comments

[Kaz shows slide on how to connect to irc]
… Any questions or comments?

Michael_McCool: just one clarification; W3C does standards but does not build technologies

Kaz: standards, yes

Michael_McCool: the emphasis needs to be on the things that need to be standardized

Kaz: We will look at expert systems and other things for the use cases

Summary of the current status of Smart Cities - Existing standards

Daihei: current state of smart cities; first speaker is Clarissa Loureiro

Kaz: Can you share your screen?
… or I can share your slides

Daihei: we cannot hear you

Clarissa_Loureiro: I am setting up to share my screen

Clarissa: taking a little longer to open the slides

Clarissa: If you have my slides, it would be better; mine are not opening

Kaz: If you can summarize in three minutes

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Clarissa's slides

Clarissa: We have developed a model of sustainable smart cities in Brazil
… based on the ITU
… we decided to expand it because we have a different reality in Latin America
… we don't have connected cities with good quality internet for everybody
… We see that ITU has a good evaluation model, but it's not for developing countries in LATAM
… this picture shows the whole model
… we have indicators for sustainable development indicators
… we have four dimensions: environmental, economic, institutional capabilities, governance
… we have selected some indicators
… something based on the reality of our countries
… sometimes we can think they can be smart cities in developing countries
… first have to diagnose the indicators
… for quality for citizens
… people in cities are the center for the concept of smart cities
… we need to see the quality of life of our citizens, and the reality of life in each city
… in our case in countries that are not so developed yet
… we developed a maturity model
… so that can evolve the maturity level of each city
… we have seven levels of maturity, different from the five of ITU
… they have infrastructure of connection
… in Brazil you don't have everything ready to be a smart city
… we want to do recommendations so cities can try to do planning and evolve the quality for their cities
… I am a researcher and engineer
… we are also concerned about public policy
… I think everybody that works with smart cities, we are a very different group
… It is not possible to explain every detail of the model
… but we have to think about the gaps in the south global countries

<Michael_McCool-Intel> different -> diverse?

Clarissa: I think that's it

Kaz: thank you very much
… during the session yesterday, there was some discussion about thinking about developing countries
… and the difference between the cities, countries and cultures
… thank you very much

Michael_McCool: Is a maturity model a target for standardization
… extending the ITU model to other cultures
… is it something we should consider being in scope?

Clarissa: There is an ITU model
… it should fit in every country
… but we started to see indicators that cities in LATAM don't fit into the first level
… we did lower levels under one

Michael: I'm not asking so much the details of this model
… but I'm asking Kaz if W3C should be interested in standardizing or should be working with ITU

Clarissa: We showed our model to ITU and they approved
… they saw it's very...has to do with ITU
… and they saw the need for having two more levels
… and they saw the indicators, more than 50% in accordance with their model
… Also, ISO has maturity model in general
… that you can try to fit
… and what we want is to develop a maturity model that can fit in all the developing countries
… We can talk about smart cities for developing countries
… not on focus on the cities, but focus first on the people who live there to have more efficient quality of public services

Michael: I don't think we need to dive into the need for the model
… but maturity model is something we can collaborate on with ITU or ISO

Kaz: Thank you very much
… probably the W3C expected Smart Cities IG should think about best practices and existing standards for adaptation
… for various countries, including developing countries
… we should collect information for that
… this is nice input for the charter
… Clarissa, do you have any idea for other organizations for collaboration
… you mentioned ITU, ISO
… and we're thinking about JCT1 as well

Clarissa: We are open to collaborate with different organizations
… I think we can contribute
… living in a developing country you have a different perspective
… you can share the reality that we live in
… something that we can contribute
… maybe not models, but practices
… you have to really live in the developing country to know very much about what are the priorities

Kaz: do you mean we should collect information from standardization bodies?
… or government?

Michael: I wonder if there is a regional smart cities group; like ASEAN in Asia
… are there equivalent organizations in Latin America?

Clarissa: not that I know of

Daihei: thank you
… Clarissa, it is impressive
… I would like to be clearer on the implementations and practices
… rather than total maturity model?
… how far are some of the implementations in Brazil?

Clarissa: We have tested the model in different cities in different regions
… we were concerned about having the model in different regions of Brazil
… people who are in the public services are not so technical sometimes
… politics I think are similar in every country
… it's hard to talk with politicians
… they have 'ego'
… and what we are concerned about is to educate them to see their priorities for each city's problems
… cities are like personalities with different characteristics for each one
… each have different characteristics
… there are many things that we need to teach them; how to explore entrepreneurship of their people
… to have a better economy
… and work on the problems that are priority for the people
… In Brazil we are connected, very active in social media
… but when you see the poor places and poor cities, we don't have the quality internet
… in COVID time, with no connection, there is no education
… each town has positive and negative points
… what we want really is to teach them what are the priorities
… and how to deal with their positive side

Daihei: It seems like in your case
… not only developing countries, but the implementations and practice, we can learn a lot from your experiences
… I hope the IG can have the on-going information updated from your case into your group
… I am not in position to talk on behalf of IG
… it's something we can learn a lot

Kaz: for example
… Sebastian mentioned we might want to have a "Landscape" type of document

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> karen: wondered if you've looked at the integration of terrestrial TV broadcasting as a potential infrastracture

Clarissa: the states that could do
… and have classes through the TV
… were the states with the better students in schools
… but not all the states could have classes through TV
… it really depends upon what the governors are thinking about education
… for me it's very clear that it's a good solution; but not everybody

Kaz: There are several layers of mechanism, including hardware, middleware, and internet
… W3C cannot standardize the lower part, but we should gather information about what is missing
… and what we could do based on the whole environment

Michael: There are a couple of things going on here
… you mentioned rural areas
… yesterday we talked about ruralization and smart communities more generally, including more remote communities
… Even in remote communities like in Canada, there are similar issues as with developing countries
… the TV question was about piggy backing the Internet onto the TV itself
… we have another group in W3C doing media management
… I wonder if things like using small amounts of internet comms in conjunction with broadcast media
… to capture programs for classes, that kind of thing
… there may be some appropriate technolgies there as well
… may cause requirements about things you want to develop

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> cl: many different solutions there

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ... each country has its own policy/environment

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ... so different solutions are needed

Michael: having these solutions into the heads of the politicians is the hardest part
… we have to educate the people to pressure the politicians, and educate the politicians to understand the priorities of their people
… sometimes we also have to focus on psychology
… to understand how the politicians should act
… and who should be there to choose the right public policies
… I understand that we can do these adaptations with internet and TV
… it would seems easy to standardize that in Brazil
… but the first thing is how can I tell that to a politician; the mayor of the city, the governor of the state and the president
… what we are thinking about is having trustful indicators with data
… and educate the population and the politicians
… and show the people what would be the different kinds of solutions

Kaz: I think there are two more points
… maybe the Media & Entertainment Interest Group would be good
… this group is working on how to work on media streaming and TV services on the web
… you mentioned the point
… not only for smart cities, but also this group as well, so further collaboration would be better
… we should gather from actual governments or gov't agencies about what is happening in each country
… and talk with, maybe not governor and politicians
… but work with the community and standardization groups about their needs and requirements
… that point should be added to the charter
… thank you

Lei_Julie: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Clarissa
… you mentioned some standardization discussed in ITU organization
… as far as I know
… there will be already the study group 20 in ITU
… and IoT and smart city issues
… for developed and developing countries
… there is also the study group for how to help
… the developing country to construct the telecommunication
… have your country to ask for some assistance from them
… and to build such kind of connection

Kaz: Thank you, Julie
… W3C has liaison with ITU-T SG20; smart cities group should work with them as well

Julie: yes, for Clarissa, one issue is not just technology perspective
… but related to government issues
… some of issues can be connected with the other related group to help build up such kind of overview
… how technologies will be shared in developed countries
… this would be a benefit for your government and people; this perspective

Kaz: on the other hand, it is difficult how to describe that issue within the charter

Julie: It is not easy

Kaz: yes, it is difficult; any other questions or comments?

Julie: Thank you Mr. Chairman

Kaz: Thank you Clarissa

Michael: In general it is hard to get states to participate
… getting them to pay attention
… to even understand that standards will help them is a challenge
… a standard makes it easier to adopt; people have adopted it
… rather than adopt some random technology
… this is a motivation for doing standards; to put a seal of approval on some concepts

Kaz: We should work on some outreach efforts and mechanisms to countries

Michael: W3C should focus on standards in its areas of expertise
… we should have active liaisons
… W3C doesn't deal with low-level tech for low-cost internet access
… that tech may have constraints for W3C standards such as low bandwidth, low latency, or interdirectionality
… that is where we have a liaison and understand the tech and how it impacts the standards
… that is why liaisons are important
… and focus on strengths, such as browser and associated technologies

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> karen: outreach ideas

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ... W3C has a Chapter in Sao Paolo

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ... this topic could be a excellent education topics

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> ... let's talk about that offline

Kaz: any questions or comments?

Daihei: One of things that Clarissa told us, about speaking with politicians and controlling environmental issues
… we gather factual indicators and then tell them with the data
… it's a practical idea
… since she is doing that
… we should learn from that
… the landscape to learn about where things are standing globally is one thing
… but also collecting data of what is really happening; the issues and problems such as case in Brazil
… we should put them into consideration for the IG

Kaz: Thank you very much

Cross-cutting issues for Smart Cities

Kaz: Let's talk about the third topic
… the first speaking is Baoping CHENG
… are you ready?

Cheng_Baoping, China Mobile

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Baoping's slides

Cheng: I am attending smart city workshop with Julie and Xia
… how tech enables a smart life

Kaz: Baoping, do you want to show your screen?

Cheng_Baoping: Julie, could you?

Julie: please may I share my screen?
… can we use the current slide? I can share if you allow me

[slide] An Innovative Communication Solution for IoT

Cheng: In year of intelligent IT...comms is very important
… shortage of existing solutions such as high cost scenarios and devices
… how can we deploy high priced devices in short period
… we developed AIoTel
… we saw some important technologies
… comms modules, active multimedia response
… and interactive multimedia response technology
… interconnect with AIoTel and @ network
… remote controls of smart homes devices
… AIoT can empower IoT devices
… regardless of ages of matched devices
… and AIoT can rely on intelligent voice and facial recognition
… for machines in actions
… AIoT provides new protocols based on @...for smart phones
… AIoTel have been in areas such as
… take a look at features that AIoT can enable smart speakers and smart lights
… multimedia communications
… different success such as WebApps and minis program
… AIoT enables...
… real connections with mobile phones and smart speakers
… Since last year we have smart speakers
… with communications only voice
… advanced scenarios...control smart phones for voice and video calls
… such as for remote access for multimedia call
… in future we will come up with more personalized, diverse
… AIoT devices will have more intelligence
… we hope choose more intelligent technologies and will be more ubiquitous
… and can be in any advanced smart phone in the near future
… Could you show the video demo
… for the attendees, Julie

Julie: Yes, one moment

[video demo]

Michael: This reminds me of a topic in the last session on intelligent UIs
… that is related to this

[China Mobile demo on remote access]

Cheng: Ok, that's all; any comments?

Kaz: any questions?

Michael_McCool: just the last session, we had intelligent user interfaces
… your example shows access rights and security
… someone pointed out an ontology for access rights management that is already a W3C standard, ODRL
… and the SOLID group is working on data access; has similar concepts

Kaz: ok
… maybe we can have dedicated time later
… do you have any specific response?

Julie: Baoping has some issues with his microphone
… me, Julie, and other colleagues will help to answer questions
… security access and how to secure the data
… if we consider the protocols and consider the security aspects, we can guarantee the data
… a big topic, security is always very important
… we can leave some for the general discussion topic
… ok, back to you

Kaz: a great suggestion to think about intelligence, IoT, and telecom
… and actual deployment of systems; we should include those viewpoints
… next presentation is from myself
… I will share my screen

Data Governance for Smart Cities

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> Kaz's slides

Kaz: this is related to the previous talks
… there are various pros and cons for smart cities, and even some criticisms
… listed on Wikipedia
… I would like to focus on the high level of big data collection and analytics
… we need to think about how to manage and govern this data
… there are so many stakeholders; I only used five categories here
… user centric; governments, communities, vendors, implementers and so on
… data is transferred from me to everybody
… not sure what data is sent to whom
… we need to clarify what should be done within this environment
… and think about concrete use cases and requirements thinking about our own situations
… we would like to start this discussion in the interest group
… any questions for this specific presentation itself?
… Maybe we should go to the final wrap-up session
… and think about what is missing with in the proposed Smart Cities Interest Group charter
… we talked about various topics


<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> draft IG Charter

Kaz: As already discussed, and suggested, accommodation for existing technolgies to provide services; IoT, AI, Telecom
… and security, and preservation and so on
… Michael McCool mentioned various good points
… we talked about expanded liaisons with other organizations
… Clarissa mentioned possibility of outreach to countries directly
… including developing countries
… Are there other missing points, or remind us of important points?

Michael_McCool: the current list of external organizations is embarrasingly short
… we should add @ and UN committees on urban development
… I think we need to do a much better job
… and then with a more complete list, our challenge will be prioritization

Kaz: what groups besides UN?

Michael: If I spent a few hours, I could come up with a couple dozen organizations for that list
… but we need to expand this list significantly

Kaz: your comment reminded me, I have a friend at World Economic Forum

Michael: Are they part of UN or separate?

Kaz: I think separate

Michael: I am pretty sure UN has group looking at Smart Cities
… ASEAN is Asian countries, but there are orgs like smart cities council in US that are specifically targeting smart cities
… and another organization, Smart City Consortium, related to ASEAN, targeting smart cities

Kaz: Ok, thank you
… as Karen mentioned, W3C has chapter mechanism and they could also help us talk with various countries
… for technical discussions
… we should think about what to keep in mind for various cross-cutting points such as accessibility, security, privacy, internationalization
… should be considered; and user-centric viewpoint is very important

Michael: One point that came up last time
… the original draft was very tech oriented, not so human oriented
… we missed out on social interactions
… and yet several of the proposals tied into ways to supporting socialization
… so that is one point we should be adding to this charter somehow

Kaz: yes

Michael: not just me and the device 1:1 or large scale socialization, but also mid-scale
… how people need to socialize in small groups

Kaz: yes

Daihei: thank you Michael, you already expressed some of what I wanted to tell
… the media content centric person
… always...old terms of software and hardware
… in smart cities and WoT, is about technologies and device POV
… in the discussions held
… whereas more relating to the media and content
… having to do with people's lifestyle
… that is quite important to really fulfill the objectives of the smart cities
… yes, a missing point of socialization at all kinds of levels
… and emphasize the point of view from hardware/device and the media/content side
… both sides

Kaz: ok
… in that case we should start actual discussion
… and broadly get information from various stakeholders
… and see what kinds of requests and requirements we see or is expected for web technologies for smart cities

Michael: there is a McKinsey report that surveyed 50 smart cities and IoT applications
… it covered cities from different economic backgrounds
… you could see the difference in the requirements based on that
… for developing countries, water leak detection is a high priority, along with gas and electrical problems
… but in developed countries people worry more about transportation
… which relates back to the indicators; have to understand the situation on the ground before discussing the technologies
… economic development, other factors, such as climate
… northern Canadian city v. Brazil
… and is large investment needed, or incremental
… is there commitment in place or do you have to develop it?

Kaz: we should gather information from various areas
… Julie, you were on the queue
… did you want to mention something?

Julie: yes, I came up with some ideas on IoT devices
… in near future there will be massive IoT devices around the world and in our lives, especially in our homes
… Michael mentioned IoT concerns are different in different countries
… in developing country, how to protect lives
… for developing countries, how to provide services
… for example, in our country, in Mr. Cheng's group, we are developing advanced technologies to protect people
… for their security and life perspectives; gas, smoke, alerts
… focusing from the general people
… which kind of issues
… also wondering smart phones, PCs, general web services
… however, for all the IoT devices, there is not the same generalcy
… no such kind of standard which can cover all these IoT devices
… for example, we already are using IoT devices for gateways
… doorbells
… but first, how can we configure the network, then we use web based tech
… if we consider...smart remote control in smart home
… no standard for this
… we are just thinking if it would be possible to rely on the web
… to unify this
… maybe this would be a good idea
… tech is already very mature and is lightweight
… come up in our mind
… urgent needs and requirements
… smart home devices, all these different brands, devices, countries and no unified standards
… so we need to consider this
… thank you

Kaz: we should think about developing, developed countries
… and think about the maintenance of the infrastructure and services
… the waterline is getting older in Japan, and have to make the big infrastructure

Michael: about applying web technologies in IoT
… I am chair of the WoT WG in W3C
… we are trying to identify gaps
… and unify technologies
… there are many silos in separate domains
… we have identified a gap in terms of standardized metadata to describe services
… another gap is local security and data access and management
… an important topic to be addressed, something I would like to see W3C work on
… security apart from network
… for home IoT
… going through global internet; unnecessary for privacy concern
… how do we structure things so that companies will adopt it
… companies do verticals because it's easier and it's easier to not integrate with other systems
… a very complicated problem
… there is a working group
… and part of the motivation is to understand the requirements to understand this IoT-Web integration

Julie: In our local country we have a standardization organization
… they are speaking about APP based smart control
… for platform, this not actually the real internet connection
… selected data
… this is not possible to be
… exacted all over the world
… from my POV
… also very difficult
… from business model, we the operators
… business companies come up with idea; then they ask why should we open up this data
… if we have the users and get more users from other platforms, why should I open up this possibility for other companies or countries
… but from users' perspective, if you buy devices from different companies, then how can I accept that I use ten different applications on ten different devices

Michael: yes, one screen on my phone
… orchestration is challenging...privacy nightmare
… use a remote cloud server...If I turn off light and go through a cloud server, to turn off a light, I am not saving energy
… there are many, many problems with the current system based on cloud
… I would like to see...more significant work to adopt it
… it's a huge challenge

Julie: a huge and very interesting topic

Kaz: different mechanisms, systems, and data governance, not just security and privacy and so on
… should be considered
… we have many nice insights from this workshop
… Is there anything missing?

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> karen: don't the existing enterprises connected with governments?

<Kaz_Ashimura-W3C> mm: govs can require openness

Michael: there are smart homes, buildings, and institutions
… an institution could mandate a smart, open system
… and only buy if you are open
… in smart home not sure how that will work out; many closed verticals
… but maybe companies like China Mobile can be influencers
… to guide for more open systems
… over half of use cases are about integration among verticals
… how do we motivate actors to open their systems?

Kaz: yes, thank you
… anything else to be mentioned?


Next steps

Kaz: in that case, the next step is asking you all and all of the other participants
… to collaborate and to join the expected Smart Cities Interest Group and to continue discussions there
… everyone is encouraged to make contributions to make this happen
… we cannot force countries or governments to do things, but we can start gathering information and start to make suggestions about some of their challenges
… I would like to ask you all to support this new activity and to join the new interest group

Michael: Can you clarify the process
… we have a draft charter
… purpose of workshop is to gather input and improve it
… then we get votes to approve
… who will do the rewriting and the improvements of the draft charter?

Kaz: let me describe the process
… there are many supportive people in this workshop
… we would like to first improve the charter itself before bringing to W3C management
… then we would present to all of W3C
… and then we would start group and start discussions about the different use cases and requirements and so on
… and have teleconference calls

Michael: Would we use GitHub
… for topics added to the charter; and do we have a deadline for when to complete that?

Kaz: it depends upon our progress
… we also need to identify chairs for this group
… or co-chairs for this group
… so please let me know if you would like to lead this group's discussions
… and the charter development as a hole
… then we can start this procedure
… any other questions?

Michael: I assume the minutes will be distributed
… and you will distribute them
… so we can see what the conclusions were?

<William_Moore-N_A> Hi everyone. Thank you for organizing this and for allowing me to shadow this last session. I would be happy to help with the current process, but am new to online collaboration.

Kaz: yes, and we will distribute the recorded video and minutes from the workshop, and the pre-recorded videos are already available

Michael: Can we extract a transcript
… in a text format transcript?

Kaz: yes, we have a dedicated service to do that
… we need to summarize here the resources
… Any other questions or comments?
… Daihei, could you please give your comments?

Daihei: To say the least, this is a very stimulating experience
… I am so pleased to see and hear so many colleagues who are trying to help
… and then to provide contributions to the better smart cities
… interest group
… and with the support of everybody and to champion Kaz
… I am sure that this interest group will be successful
… And there was a discussion about collaboration
… and make it open and have everyone join in
… from business POV there is exclusivity
… and other properties you would like to have
… at the same time, the intention is to make the world, society and people's lives beter
… thank you very much

Kaz: thank you for your contributions and your attendance
… thank you Karen and Rachel for scribin

[ workshp adjourned]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).