W3C

- DRAFT -

Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference

25 Jun 2021

Attendees

Present
Sharron, brent, Howard, shawn, CarlosD, Estella, Michele, Shadi, Mark, Kevin, Carlos, Laura, Hidde, KrisAnne, krisannekinney, MarkPalmer, hdv, Daniel, Sylvie, Vicki
Regrets
Chair
Brent
Scribe
Sharron

Contents


<scribe> Scribe: Sharron

Introductions

All: Quick intros of group

Michele: Sent email intro to list - worked several positions, lately with Pearson, now independent MAW Making Accessibility Work.

WCAG-EM Report Tool

Brent: Survey has been open, Hidde will discuss and wrap up issues

Hidde: Thanks for all the response, appreciated. I'd like to go through the issues raised. Two main things were the overview page. Previous tool had more text and we tried to streamline based on assumption that people tend to not want to read.
... Received a number of responses, including a note about the expand/collapse. In general the group liked the minimal version although some though ti was TOO minimal. One comment was to expand by default but in my opinion that would defeat the purpose of the expand/collapse. No need for it if it is expanded by default,

Shawn: A common user experince is that most people who use it, ues it regularly. A few may come knock around and not come back. Most users use it a lot - either on our site or locally - to do multiple reports.

KrisAnne: Do we have people who come for the first time and need more information?

Hidde: Yes, and we would wnat them to easily find and use the expand function.

Shadi: Is the request to add data or expand all the sections?

Hidde: The e/c fundtion.

Shadi: OK I prefer this

<Howard> +1 to keeping collapsed

Laura: I know it is an extra click - but the sections stand out more readily, I prefer it the way it is.

Sharron: +1

<Estella> +1

<shawn> +1 to Laura that collappsed they actually stand out more

<MarkPalmer> +1

Brent: I made the comment and hearing the use cases again, I am fine with withdrawing my suggestion.

Carlos: It was hard to distinguish content of About from that in Intro. Even for the typical user, I think we don't have to explain so much but might consider a stronger call to action.

Hidde: I will take these comments and think about it a bit more

Carlos: If we hide the box on the right side there is no other way to open the report. If they hide and forget they did, they would not be able to open.

Shawn: Isn't there another way on the bottom?

<shawn> -1 for Start Report in right column that it at the bottom for some

Hidde: Yes we can move that so it is easier to find
... Second thing is the results - there are two places to view the same results. Some like that and others said remove the two options and carlos said to add a link to a New Report page that offers the options. Becasue of the conflicting views I am not sure what to do.

Shadi: Are there drawbacks to having this here in this page? Technically is there any reason not to do it?

Hidde: Not really no, it renders fast. My preference is to have it in one place.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say limit changes

Shawn: Since we are redesigning a tool that a lot of people use. If there is a strong reason to change it seems like we should, bit if not a strong reason, leave as is.

Howard: If the benefit to keeping it is realted to the ease of summary and with Shawns poibt, seems right to leave. Maybe rename to audit reults preview.

<brent> +1 to Howards name change

Shadi: I kind of prefer that it is the same on both pages. If it had a different heading it would be more confusing. Would it be easy to put the same thing on both pages?

<shawn> +1 for using the same heading and data on both pages

Hidde: Yes it would be easy to do.

<Vicki> +1 same heading on both pages

<CarlosD> +1 for same heading and summary on both pages

Hidde: OK then I will do that and keep it collapsed by default.

Sharron: +1

Hidde: OK there were a few general comments - one was is the SAVE button in more than one place? It is now only available on the View Report and is now called Download Report.

Shadi: Will you remove the save reference on the first page?

Hudde: Yes

Carlos: Those who are used to having Save in the toolbar, will this work for them? Maybe a reminder about how to save your work in all the pages and a longer version on the Overview page.

Hidde: For those who miss the menu bar, we will keep the old version open for a while and see what public respnse is.

Brent: How long do people spend in this tool? If I am interrupted how do I know to go to the last page to save what I am doing?

Kevin: Hours or days usually and I see there is some inconsistancy between what the intro says and how it works. The current tool allows me to save the results using Command S and now this one does not. It seems this is more risky in an unstable situation and is a big change for a very useful mechanism.

Hidde: It reminds me that in the ATAG Report Tool we warn people to save in the browser and not having that here is a serious risk I agree. It would be great to save in local storage. How do others feel?

<CarlosD> +1 to save in local storage

Sharron: +1

<Laura> +1

<kevin_> +1

<Estella> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

<Vicki> +1

<Howard> +1

Shadi: I don't think we should add more descriptions. People won't spend hours or days without knowing how to save their data. Second, Kevin has convinced me to keep the capacity to save with keyboard commands. Finally the assumption is that you are usually not evaluating more than one Authoring Tool but the complexity of the WCAG tool is that multiple websites may be evaluated at the same time.

Hidde: There are various ways to do this using multiple container or private tabes or browsers.

<Zakim> kevin_, you wanted to mention multiple evaluators

Hidde: multiple reports but maybe not simultaneously

<hdv> [+1 to passing json back and forth, have seen this a lot too]

Kevin: Multiple audits at the same time? That seems quite rare. But you might have multiple people working on the same audit and passing the JSON file around is useful.

<shadi> [+1 to save function -- kevin convinced me and i blame him]

<Laura> +1 to Kevin's comments

Hidde: OK will work on this

Daniel: +1 to easy save

Kevin: Maybe just replicate the control-S and save the other to future enhancement?

Shadi: This update will close a lot of issues

<hdv> (the local storage issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag-em-report-tool/issues/7)

Hidde: Sylvie you asked that the two things disappeared from the Tips - show info and not all fields required, and ability to move back and forth. But these are quite common features now. I decided to go from brevity and not explain common patterns and behaviors.
... is this OK?

Sylvie: Yes, it was only a question.

Shadi: It seems even clearer

Daniel: Yes and clearer to AT

Hidde: very grateful for the detailed comments, I know what to do now and will be working on this with another developer.

Brent: Thansk Hidde, any more questions/comments?

User Stories from How PWD Use Web

<brent> Prototype draft: https://deploy-preview-113--wai-people-use-web.netlify.app/people-use-web/user-stories/

Kevin: This resource is what we call Persona in user research. Stories of Web users is a series of personas, how they approach web content and services. Two other supporting resources using the same personas. We started with the stroies of web users with the purpose of demonstrating that yes PWD use the web and here is how. Things have changed a bit and now understandin that what the web is is a

changing beast and we are conscious of the need to show how the perspective of disabled users can be a good design resource.

scribe: trying to capture small pieces that can be reflected as user needs and connect them to other WAI resources. Another bit of work is to illustrate with videos and ensure that the users are consistently woven into the story telling and contextulaize it around the standards and other resources.
... we've mocked up a couple to validate the approach. Not looking for detailed wordsmithing but more of the big picture of how we are presenting the resources. First big change is structural change to move each user to individual pages.
... also working on internal navigation to be predicatble and consistant.

<shawn> [ Shawn notes that we expect to have still photos and probably videos for each of these. ]

scribe: begins with a (made-up) quote, then description of person and digital interactions connected to their lives. Next is AT and adaptive strategies, followed by common barriers and the last two are (linked) resources and principles of WCAG and some specific SCs. Using tagging feature of QuickRef to do that.
... all will follow this general pattern. I put questions in GitHub and thanks to those who were able to commnet.

<brent> New structure #115: https://github.com/w3c/wai-people-use-web/issues/115

scribe: First was how does this structural change land for people?
... one was to note that this is not a comprehensive set of user needs. Any other comments about the structure?

Michele: I am new and don't know all the vbackground but as UX researcher, the word persona often makes me cringe. What are people supposed to get from these?

Kevin: I agree that personas can be misused but have also found that they can make issues real to people, The orginal resource was meant to simply be clear that yes, PWD use the web. At the time it was a surprise to many. But as time has passed general public is more aware of users with disabilities so this iteration fo the resource will lead to the encouragement to inlcude PWD in the design

process.

Kevin: And we will not be calling this resource personas it will still be called How PWD Use the Web. it is an internal ID.

Michele: So we are trying to humanize the problem but please don't take this as predictive of all user experince.

Kevin: Yes there are things we will highlight about use of the resource and would appreciate your perspective.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask follow up question and to ask about "users stories" vs. "personas" (to start , but not necessarily need conclusion today)

Shawn: I was going to bring up the issue of User Stories vs Personas. There is a risk of abuse and misunderstanding. But my SEO hat says maybe personas is a good term. I understand the caveats and are happy to add clear disclaimers.

Kevin: We did some research into persona sets and only one actually uses the word - many use other terms.

<shadi> ack +

<Zakim> Daniel_, you wanted to say we could say something like "These user stories can potentially help you build personas with disabilities"

<shawn> [ related to earlier discussion "Caution: Carefully consider all input. Avoid assuming that input from one person with a disability applies to all people with disabilities." - https://www.w3.org/WAI/planning/involving-users/#carefully-consider-input]

<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/perspective-videos/keyboard/

Shadi: Thank you for all this work. A note that we were planning to make longer videos in support of this and use these personas to use them in the very short SC illustrations but alos a longer version for this space. The number of links can be good bu may need more work for clarity and to avoid being overwhelmed.
... share example of how we structured the Perspective videos

Kevis: Another example is link text for related resources. We suggest starting with some of the entry level resources like EasyChecks

<brent> Link text for related resources #117: https://github.com/w3c/wai-people-use-web/issues/117

Kevin: There was a suggestion was to explain a bit more about the nature of the linked resources.

Brent: Do you see a consistency in the pattern of lniking out to other resources?

Kevin: Yes we expect this to be common. There are aspects of previously used "Learn More" sections but I would shy away from putting them in just one section.

Brent: If one user story uses a video and tips and another one has no vides, will that change the structure.

Kevin: We have not seen that yet but can keep bearing it in mind to look out for.

<shawn> [/me happy to see that patten ("Problem"/"Works Well") grew legs! :-]

<brent> Using example barriers #116: https://github.com/w3c/wai-people-use-web/issues/116

Kevin: One of the issues that has popped up is the grouping and I am glad it has been called ouot. Do we think these are useful and what are alternatives for grouping?

Shadi: Pulling out the AT and adaptive strategies is good and might be useful to pull out the diverse abilities section.

Kevin: Linking into high level description and user may not have context.

Shawn: You can link to a deep link and it will be expanded when you land.

<Zakim> Howard, you wanted to say Brent's format for the obstacles looks good

Howard: I like the idea of brent's organziation of barriers for the ease of scanning.

<Zakim> Daniel_, you wanted to ask for a bit of semantics for this lists, especially when there are several problem/works well series

Daniel: Complement for the visual grouping you amy be able to use a defintition list or something

Kevin: Any other genral comments for now?

Shawn: Great work, so glad we are getting this updated thnk you!

Shadi: I know there is an issue on the story of Alex and wondering if we can work in parallel. Can we talk about it offline in terms of timing?

<shawn> [ and we need to get COGA involved soon - /me looks at Kris Anne :-)]

<krisannekinney> \me sorry i need to drop.

Scribe

Brent: SR and i will trade off in chairing the meeting and there is a link in the EO Meetings page to be part of the scribe rotation.

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Minute_Taking_Tips

<Daniel_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Minute_Taking_Tips

Brent: Here is the scribe rotation link: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Meeting_Scribes
... Don't worry about all the protocols, we will support you.

Shawn: Minutes are posted to the site, and are available immediately at the end of the meeting. You can correct them at that time or late.

<shawn> Feel free to put your name at the top of the list with the date if you want to scribe that meeting!

W4TW and meeting wrap

Brent: Will be updated today. Please pay attention to the Outreach info. We are looking for some open issues of developing resources.

Sharron: status of Outreach TF?

Michele: What is required?

Kevin: If my collegue could get involved, she has a background in Comms

Michele: I would like more informaiton to be involved

Shawn: Yes and Michele, I have several projects that occured to me that you can help with. Let's meet soon and follow up.

tractbot, end meeting

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2021/06/25 14:51:08 $

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Default Present: Sharron, brent, Howard, shawn, CarlosD, Estella, Michele, Shadi, Mark, Kevin, Laura, Hidde, KrisAnne, krisannekinney, MarkPalmer, hdv, Daniel, Sylvie, Vicki
Present: Sharron, brent, Howard, shawn, CarlosD, Estella, Michele, Shadi, Mark, Kevin, Carlos, Laura, Hidde, KrisAnne, krisannekinney, MarkPalmer, hdv, Daniel, Sylvie, Vicki
Found Scribe: Sharron
Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron
Found Date: 25 Jun 2021
People with action items: 

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