<jeanne> OUtcomes proposal
What terms need to be defined?
<jeanne> Method <- https://
Jeanne: Ed said we need definitions that are unambiguous
Jeanne: for example, what would be an unambiguous definition of headings
Jeanne: intention to have high level definitions with details for those wishing to dig deeper
Jeanne: shared https://
Jeanne: interested to know what else needs to be defined that is within the draft Headings definition
Jeanne: Bruce had a concern about using complete sentences.
Jeanne: what else needs to be defined?
Wilco: concerned "blocks of content" would never be met
Suzanne: headings don't organise disorganised content. Active voice is easier to understand and forces clarity.
Jeanne: asked Suzanne to experiment with wording
Anne: definition doesn't mention headings, the thing being defined.
HOw to phrase the outcome
Anne: the word being defined should be in the phrase
<jeanne> The topic phrase needs to be in the Outcome sentence
<jeanne> Headings outline the content
David: describes headings as providing an outline of the content rather than organising it
Wilco: not sure what is being tested
Wilco: "block of content" came from a definition for "repeated blocks of content" and maybe doesn't work as a stand alone definition as it is quite vague
Jeanne: we are aware people take WCAG and strip out everything except steps - if outcomes will be turned into checklists want to include the reason within those outcomes
Aim to build understanding of outcomes into the testing process
Jeanne: AG process started with identified user needs. For headings that user needs was identified about 3 years ago.
Jeanne: referenced WCAG 3.0 stuff... outcomes built on guidance built on user needs
Jeanne: example, "headings allow readers to skim longer passages of text and choose which parts to read".
Wilco: so who decides what headings are needed? the author?
Wilco: if the author doesn't add headings are any needed?
David: if an author has added headings, they should be coded correctly
Jeanne: and visually distinct
David: yes, so if author includes headings they should benefit all users equivalently
David: if author chooses to have no headings all users have no headings
Jeanne: the example we're looking at is about whether a heading describes the content it labels
Anne: so perhaps that should be part of 2.4.6
Anne: not sure if example outcome is about heading being descriptive or that there should be a certain number of headings
Jeanne: headings should exist as appropriate to the platform technology, and they should label the content appropriately
Emma: that implies 2 outcomes, one requiring at least one heading and the other about descriptiveness
Wilco: do we want to encourage some form of heading structure?
Anne: for non-text content that could be difficult
Anne: Applications have a title instead of a heading
Emma: would we not consider the title to be a form of heading?
Bruce: Apps might use different elements to be headings to meet WCAG
Emma: "heading" is a semantic concept, not only an HTML element
<bruce_bailey> Here is how wcag 2x address its use of label:
<bruce_bailey> The term label is not limited to the label element in HTML.
Wilco: heading could be semantic, presentational or functional
<DavidASx> For clarity my comments on author's discretion was in response to Wilco's comment about an author's creative work. I am fine for that being an exception and the norm being a requirement.
<bruce_bailey> wcag3 could do the same thing with "heading"
<bruce_bailey> A heading is a word, phrase, or sentence at the beginning of a written passage that explains what it's about. A heading is very similar to a title. A heading is similar to a caption, a line below a photograph that briefly explains it.
A heading is a word, phrase, or sentence at the beginning of a written passage that explains what it's about. A heading is very similar to a title. A heading is similar to a caption, a line below a photograph that briefly explains it. heading - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.comhttps://
Jared: It's hard to describe where to put headings in theory, but not that hard in practice. You could always provide several examples of different content types to clarify what is meant in different scenarios.
<DavidASx> I agree that captions as headings are confusing.
Emma: The BBC has headings on news articles, but also some kind of title or "heading" on media content
David: the idea that a heading is a phrase explaining the coming content. It might be easier to leave the specifics to the examples
David: not sure about captions
Trevor: not sure it makes it not a heading
Jeanne: scope of WCAG3.0 is moving scope to more than just HTML, so could include title
David: agree title and heading are similar enough
Anne: wondering if the scope of what a heading covers/describes is being missed in the description
David: if the concept of "block of content" allows for that, it should be ok
Anne: h1 should describe all content until the next h1, not only the content until the next heading
Wilco: do you need a semantic understanding of the content to understand what a heading applies to?
Anne: we need outcomes to not be misinterpreted
<kathyeng> I also have to drop. My comment was to modify "outline" from the current outcome wording. Suggesting "identify" instead.
Emma: refering back to the concept of headings outlining content, mentioning headings and subheadings would allow for different levels and headings within blocks of content
Jeanne: if anyone needs access, email jeanne