Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

07 June 2021


anne_thyme_, bruce_bailey, EmmaJ_PR, Francis_Storr, jeanne, kathyeng, Makoto, Tobias, trevor, Wilco

Meeting minutes

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vsp1V2hBpU6Y0vNt-AGP-Y6fOxx1-IjoKgBJ_3bPlfg/edit

<jeanne> OUtcomes proposal

What terms need to be defined?

<jeanne> Method <- https://docs.google.com/document/d/19FaJF_9V1CayeO92OiPpUil9USOTJWOPLdfgcOIJ6Fw/edit

<DavidASx_> +1

Jeanne: Ed said we need definitions that are unambiguous

Jeanne: for example, what would be an unambiguous definition of headings

Jeanne: intention to have high level definitions with details for those wishing to dig deeper

Jeanne: shared https://docs.google.com/document/d/19FaJF_9V1CayeO92OiPpUil9USOTJWOPLdfgcOIJ6Fw/edit

Jeanne: interested to know what else needs to be defined that is within the draft Headings definition

Jeanne: Bruce had a concern about using complete sentences.

Jeanne: what else needs to be defined?

Wilco: concerned "blocks of content" would never be met

Suzanne: headings don't organise disorganised content. Active voice is easier to understand and forces clarity.

Jeanne: asked Suzanne to experiment with wording

Anne: definition doesn't mention headings, the thing being defined.

HOw to phrase the outcome

Anne: the word being defined should be in the phrase

Jeanne: agrees

<jeanne> The topic phrase needs to be in the Outcome sentence

<jeanne> Headings outline the content

David: describes headings as providing an outline of the content rather than organising it

Wilco: not sure what is being tested

Wilco: "block of content" came from a definition for "repeated blocks of content" and maybe doesn't work as a stand alone definition as it is quite vague

Jeanne: we are aware people take WCAG and strip out everything except steps - if outcomes will be turned into checklists want to include the reason within those outcomes

Aim to build understanding of outcomes into the testing process

Jeanne: AG process started with identified user needs. For headings that user needs was identified about 3 years ago.

Jeanne: referenced WCAG 3.0 stuff... outcomes built on guidance built on user needs

Jeanne: example, "headings allow readers to skim longer passages of text and choose which parts to read".

Wilco: so who decides what headings are needed? the author?

Wilco: if the author doesn't add headings are any needed?

David: if an author has added headings, they should be coded correctly

Jeanne: and visually distinct

David: yes, so if author includes headings they should benefit all users equivalently

David: if author chooses to have no headings all users have no headings

Jeanne: the example we're looking at is about whether a heading describes the content it labels

Anne: so perhaps that should be part of 2.4.6

(related to)

Anne: not sure if example outcome is about heading being descriptive or that there should be a certain number of headings

Jeanne: headings should exist as appropriate to the platform technology, and they should label the content appropriately

Emma: that implies 2 outcomes, one requiring at least one heading and the other about descriptiveness

Wilco: do we want to encourage some form of heading structure?

Anne: for non-text content that could be difficult

Anne: Applications have a title instead of a heading

Emma: would we not consider the title to be a form of heading?

Bruce: Apps might use different elements to be headings to meet WCAG

Emma: "heading" is a semantic concept, not only an HTML element

<bruce_bailey> Here is how wcag 2x address its use of label:

<bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#dfn-labels

<bruce_bailey> The term label is not limited to the label element in HTML.

Wilco: heading could be semantic, presentational or functional

<DavidASx> For clarity my comments on author's discretion was in response to Wilco's comment about an author's creative work. I am fine for that being an exception and the norm being a requirement.

<bruce_bailey> wcag3 could do the same thing with "heading"

<bruce_bailey> A heading is a word, phrase, or sentence at the beginning of a written passage that explains what it's about. A heading is very similar to a title. A heading is similar to a caption, a line below a photograph that briefly explains it.

A heading is a word, phrase, or sentence at the beginning of a written passage that explains what it's about. A heading is very similar to a title. A heading is similar to a caption, a line below a photograph that briefly explains it. heading - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.comhttps://www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › heading

Jared: It's hard to describe where to put headings in theory, but not that hard in practice. You could always provide several examples of different content types to clarify what is meant in different scenarios.

<DavidASx> I agree that captions as headings are confusing.

Emma: The BBC has headings on news articles, but also some kind of title or "heading" on media content

<jeanne> +1

David: the idea that a heading is a phrase explaining the coming content. It might be easier to leave the specifics to the examples

David: not sure about captions

Trevor: not sure it makes it not a heading

Jeanne: scope of WCAG3.0 is moving scope to more than just HTML, so could include title

David: agree title and heading are similar enough

Anne: wondering if the scope of what a heading covers/describes is being missed in the description

David: if the concept of "block of content" allows for that, it should be ok

Anne: h1 should describe all content until the next h1, not only the content until the next heading

Wilco: do you need a semantic understanding of the content to understand what a heading applies to?

Anne: we need outcomes to not be misinterpreted

<kathyeng> I also have to drop. My comment was to modify "outline" from the current outcome wording. Suggesting "identify" instead.

Emma: refering back to the concept of headings outlining content, mentioning headings and subheadings would allow for different levels and headings within blocks of content

Jeanne: if anyone needs access, email jeanne

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).


Succeeded: s/thin with/thing with/

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: EmmaJ_PR

Maybe present: Anne, Bruce, David, Emma, Jared, Suzanne