W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

29 April 2021

Attendees

Present
addison, Atsushi, Bert, fsasaki, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
atsushi

Meeting minutes

<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

Agenda Review

xfq: EPUB issues

Action Items

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

<addison> action-1019?

<trackbot> action-1019: Addison Phillips to Fix terminology on natural language in spec dev -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN

addison: [go through actions list]

addison: did initial edits, and in agenda

<addison> close action-1019

<trackbot> Closed action-1019.

<addison> action-1020?

<trackbot> action-1020: Addison Phillips to Examine charmod related to natural language & do edits -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN

addison: same, and did

<addison> close action-1020

<trackbot> Closed action-1020.

addison: with PR

<addison> action-1021?

<trackbot> action-1021: Addison Phillips to Ensure that specdev itself is consistent with regards to natural language -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN

<addison> close action-1021

<trackbot> Closed action-1021.

<addison> action-1022?

<trackbot> action-1022: Richard Ishida to Look at string meta use of 'natural language' -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN

Info Share

addison: will ping fantasai on action-1023

r12a: interesting experience this week

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-drafts/nav/about

r12a: started updating second level pages in our site, a lot of out of date
… there are navigation header below top header
… some new page created on github sometime ago, and propagated to there
… many of those navigation pages are broken links

addison: any item we can help

r12a: if you have any issue, point them
… already went through some, and should be almost done
… all of these are on github, and can be maintained on there

<Bert> (Maybe a bit more space between the site links, to make it clear they are separate items and not a sentence.)

<fsasaki> ++

RADAR Review

<r12a> ok, Bert - i'll look at that

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: no new request, nothing in review
… any other call outs here?

"natural language" edits

addison: did some editing on both charmod and bp-specdev
… first charmod

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/charmod-norm/pull/214

<addison> http://aphillips.github.io/charmod-norm/

<addison> http://aphillips.github.io/charmod-norm/#terminology

addison: interesting part is terminology section
… sync state with ltli
… sorted contents, moved up user supplied value
… added examples of example boxes
… last, textual contexts

<fsasaki> looks good to me

jck: seems user supplied value are unnecessary restricted @@@1 (lose some)

addison: want to restrict certain characters in text

jck: yes on that point, current restriction over Unicode is stronger

addison: family groups, block modifiers, various origin flags could be
… defining some terminology is required here
… to be used also by specdev

addison: words for supplied values are separated, like base64
… check specdev, and have some proposal here?

r12a: take out middle one like CSS, and make example
… like quite different example by XML/DTD, or something

addison: recast examples, current HTML one should from the original charmod

jck: user communications are natural language

r12a: user supplied values are not always in some language

addison: both natural language and non-sentense could be used

r12a: textual contents?
… suppose somebody does not know things, xml contents could be textual contents?
… human readable contents,,, or,,,?
… contents aiming to be readable from users?
… user oriented, or...

addison: in different context. ISBN or JSON is not which is ID, timestamp is not
… recall neutural items, as textual values
… book titles, etc., should have base language tags, as natural language

felix: in localization process, agree with Addison, and in a localization process you do not want to have a string like "true" to be extracted and then translated into the target language

r12a: not sure it is problem, with separating as that, but closer to the solution

addison: trying to say, when back on specdev, some are in language contents, others are not
… don't want to attach meta data to others.

r12a: could be have third examples

addison: could have additional QA documents?

r12a: linguistic contents, communicated content, user content

<fsasaki> +1 to linguistic contents

addison: [reading current text]
… we have syntactic content, so no-sentactic?

<Bert> (Brainstorming: payload content, body content, main content, message content, text content...)

xfq: ordinary language content

addison: re-write this section, may be people think about more...

<addison> https://aphillips.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/

<r12a> communicative ?

addison: go to specdev

<addison> https://aphillips.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#glossary

addison: some aggressive edits, starting by glossary as new appendix
… extracted definitions here, ltli, and charmod

r12a: this is great, wanted have here

addison: not organized yet, and small number of items

<addison> https://aphillips.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#lang_basics_1

r12a: what is green bar?

addison: styles in specdev, should be also in charmod

addison: picked and changed links of natural language
… intended for human, or something like that

r12a: we only need to apply direction and language to which people will read
… one point people don't know that messages could be displaied and read

addison: like only debugging and not for read

r12a: could be something: do not assume, your message could be read by user
… not only user defined values

r12a: btw, did you find editing this as easy?

addison: yes

addison: any insights on this approach?

all: [silent, no objection]

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/geolocation-api/issues/50

addison: bring back this issue, which brought us this discussion

r12a: got a message from plh, that not to reopen this issue
… you can say, please reopen this

addison: anybody agree with continue wokring on this, as WG decision?

r12a: specdev is in evergreen

r12a: living standard is not applied to NOTE

[conversation on difference between NOTE and REC]

<xfq> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/1648/files

xfq: epub added charmod as informative but not normative

<addison> http://aphillips.github.io/charmod-norm/#choosingMatchingAlgorithm

addison: come back on this in upcoming again

AOB?

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 131 (Sat Apr 24 15:23:43 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/langugae/language/

Succeeded: s/ones are taken/agree with Addison, and in a localization process you do not want to have a string like "true" to be extracted and then translated into the target language/

Succeeded 1 times: s/sentactic/syntactic/G

Maybe present: all, felix, r12a, xfq