13:47:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:47:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/04/29-i18n-irc
13:47:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:47:23 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:47:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:47:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:47:29 <trackbot> Date: 29 April 2021
13:47:32 <addison> agendabot, find agenda
13:47:32 <agendabot> addison, OK. This may take a minute...
13:47:34 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Apr/0015.html
13:47:34 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:47:34 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:47:34 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:47:35 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:47:37 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:47:39 <agendabot> agenda+ "natural language" edits
13:47:40 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:47:42 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:47:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/29-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:54:10 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
14:00:02 <addison> present+
14:00:10 <addison> present+ Fuqiao, Atsushi, Richard
14:00:49 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
14:01:33 <fsasaki> present+
14:01:50 <addison> scribenick: atsushi
14:03:18 <addison> present+ Bert
14:03:27 <addison> agenda?
14:03:39 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:03:41 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:03:56 <addison> agenda+ epub issues
14:04:02 <atsushi_> xfq: EPUB issues
14:04:08 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:04:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:16 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:04:55 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:05:18 <addison> action-1019?
14:05:18 <trackbot> action-1019 -- Addison Phillips to Fix terminology on natural language in spec dev -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN
14:05:18 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1019
14:05:19 <atsushi_> addison: [go through actions list]
14:05:43 <atsushi_> addison: did initial edits, and in agenda
14:05:43 <addison> close action-1019
14:05:44 <trackbot> Closed action-1019.
14:05:48 <addison> action-1020?
14:05:48 <trackbot> action-1020 -- Addison Phillips to Examine charmod related to natural language & do edits -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN
14:05:48 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1020
14:06:01 <atsushi_> addison: same, and did
14:06:03 <JcK> present+ JcK
14:06:05 <addison> close action-1020
14:06:05 <trackbot> Closed action-1020.
14:06:06 <atsushi_> ... with PR
14:06:09 <addison> action-1021?
14:06:09 <trackbot> action-1021 -- Addison Phillips to Ensure that specdev itself is consistent with regards to natural language -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN
14:06:09 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1021
14:06:25 <addison> close action-1021
14:06:26 <trackbot> Closed action-1021.
14:06:30 <addison> action-1022?
14:06:30 <trackbot> action-1022 -- Richard Ishida to Look at string meta use of 'natural language' -- due 2021-04-29 -- OPEN
14:06:30 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1022
14:07:10 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:07:10 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:07:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/29-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:07:23 <atsushi_> addison: will ping fantasai on action-1023
14:07:43 <atsushi_> r12a: interesting experience this week
14:08:01 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-drafts/nav/about
14:08:18 <atsushi_> ... started updating second level pages in our site, a lot of out of date
14:08:41 <atsushi_> ... there are navigation header below top header
14:09:10 <atsushi_> ... some new page created on github sometime ago, and propagated to there
14:09:25 <atsushi_> ... many of those navigation pages are broken links
14:10:11 <atsushi_> addison: any item we can help
14:10:22 <atsushi_> r12a: if you have any issue, point them
14:10:48 <atsushi_> ... already went through some, and should be almost done
14:11:08 <atsushi_> ... all of these are on github, and can be maintained on there
14:11:26 <Bert> (Maybe a bit more space between the site links, to make it clear they are separate items and not a sentence.)
14:11:36 <fsasaki> ++
14:11:47 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:11:47 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:11:54 <r12a> ok, Bert - i'll look at that
14:12:01 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:12:17 <atsushi_> addison: no new request, nothing in review
14:12:28 <atsushi_> ... any other call outs here?
14:12:30 <addison> agenda?
14:12:42 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:12:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- "natural language" edits -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:13:05 <atsushi_> addison: did some editing on both charmod and bp-specdev
14:13:10 <atsushi_> ... first charmod
14:13:10 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/charmod-norm/pull/214
14:13:15 <fsasaki> agenda+ in addition to the gap analysis documents, would it be useful to have a description of what feature is needed for a given language
14:13:27 <addison> http://aphillips.github.io/charmod-norm/
14:13:52 <addison> http://aphillips.github.io/charmod-norm/#terminology
14:13:53 <atsushi_> addison: interesting part is terminology section
14:14:22 <atsushi_> ... sync state with ltli
14:14:41 <atsushi_> ... sorted contents, moved up user supplied value
14:14:50 <atsushi_> ... added examples of example boxes
14:15:16 <atsushi_> ... last, textual contexts
14:16:01 <fsasaki> looks good to me
14:17:04 <atsushi_> jck: seems user supplied value are unnecessary restricted @@@1 (lose some)
14:17:28 <atsushi_> addison: want to restrict certain characters in text
14:17:53 <atsushi_> jck: yes on that point, current restriction over Unicode is stronger
14:18:52 <atsushi_> addison: family groups, block modifiers, various origin flags could be
14:19:10 <atsushi_> ... defining some terminology is required here
14:19:29 <atsushi_> ... to be used also by specdev
14:20:17 <atsushi_> addison: words for supplied values are separated, like base64
14:20:52 <atsushi_> ... check specdev, and have some proposal here?
14:21:21 <atsushi_> r12a: take out middle one like CSS, and make example
14:21:40 <atsushi_> ... like quite different example by XML/DTD, or something
14:22:19 <atsushi_> addison: recast examples, current HTML one should from the original charmod
14:23:01 <atsushi_> jck: user communications are natural language
14:24:08 <atsushi_> r12a: user supplied values are not always in some langugae
14:24:38 <xfq> s/langugae/language/
14:25:05 <atsushi_> addison: both natural language and non-sentense could be used
14:25:50 <atsushi_> r12a: textual contents?
14:26:29 <atsushi_> ... suppose somebody does not know things, xml contents could be textual contents?
14:26:49 <atsushi_> ... human readable contents,,, or,,,?
14:27:04 <atsushi_> ... contents aiming to be readable from users?
14:27:12 <atsushi_> ... user oriented, or...
14:27:55 <atsushi_> addison: in different context. ISBN or JSON is not which is ID, timestamp is not
14:28:11 <atsushi_> ... recall neutural items, as textual values
14:28:40 <atsushi_> ... book titles, etc., should  have base language tags, as natural language
14:29:09 <atsushi_> felix: in localization process, ones are taken
14:29:31 <atsushi_> r12a: not sure it is problem, with separating as that, but closer to the solution
14:30:04 <fsasaki> s/ones are taken/agree with Addison, and in a localization process you do not want to have a string like "true" to be extracted and then translated into the target language/
14:30:26 <atsushi_> addison: trying to say, when back on specdev, some are in language contents, others are not
14:30:47 <atsushi_> ... don't want to attach meta data to others.
14:31:16 <atsushi_> r12a: could be have third examples
14:32:08 <atsushi_> addison: could have additional QA documents?
14:32:54 <atsushi_> r12a: linguistic contents, communicated content, user content
14:32:59 <fsasaki> +1 to linguistic contents
14:33:37 <atsushi_> addison: [reading current text]
14:34:19 <atsushi_> ... we have sentactic content, so no-sentactic?
14:34:24 <Bert> (Brainstorming: payload content, body content, main content, message content, text content...)
14:34:39 <atsushi_> xfq: ordinary language content
14:35:24 <atsushi_> addison: re-write this section, may be people think about more...
14:35:27 <addison> https://aphillips.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/
14:35:32 <r12a> communicative ?
14:35:36 <atsushi_> addison: go to specdev
14:35:47 <addison> https://aphillips.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#glossary
14:35:56 <atsushi_> ... some aggressive edits, starting by glossary as new appendix
14:36:13 <atsushi_> ... extracted definitions here, ltli, and charmod
14:36:33 <xfq> s/sentactic/syntactic/G
14:36:55 <atsushi_> r12a: this is great, wanted have here
14:37:25 <atsushi_> addison: not organized yet, and small number of items
14:37:30 <addison> https://aphillips.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#lang_basics_1
14:37:37 <atsushi_> r12a: what is green bar?
14:38:01 <atsushi_> addison: styles in specdev, should be also in charmod
14:38:58 <atsushi_> addison: picked and changed links of natural language
14:39:18 <atsushi_> ... intended for human, or something like that
14:40:25 <atsushi_> r12a: we only need to apply direction and language to which people will read
14:41:14 <atsushi_> ... one point people don't know that messages could be displaied and read
14:41:26 <atsushi_> addison: like only debugging and not for read
14:41:53 <atsushi_> r12a: could be something: do not assume, your message could be read by user
14:42:01 <atsushi_> ... not only user defined values
14:42:35 <atsushi_> r12a: btw, did you find editing this as easy?
14:42:41 <atsushi_> addison: yes
14:42:51 <atsushi_> addison: any insights on this approach?
14:43:05 <atsushi_> all: [silent, no objection]
14:43:12 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/geolocation-api/issues/50
14:43:32 <atsushi_> addison: bring back this issue, which brought us this discussion
14:43:46 <atsushi_> r12a: got a message from plh, that not to reopen this issue
14:45:13 <atsushi_> ... you can say, please reopen this
14:50:34 <atsushi_> addison: anybody agree with continue wokring on this, as WG decision?
14:50:49 <addison> agenda?
14:51:30 <atsushi_> r12a: specdev is in evergreen
14:52:04 <atsushi_> r12a: living standard is not applied to NOTE
14:54:15 <atsushi_> [conversation on difference between NOTE and REC]
14:58:04 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/1648/files
14:58:31 <atsushi_> xfq: epub added charmod as informative but not normative
14:58:39 <addison> http://aphillips.github.io/charmod-norm/#choosingMatchingAlgorithm
14:59:44 <atsushi_> addison: come back on this in upcoming again
15:00:42 <addison> Topic: AOB?
15:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/04/29-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:01:05 <atsushi_> felix: added agenda is ok to be moved next week