Meeting minutes
EU Copyright & TDM regulations
Liisa: Is there work we
should be doing in this area?
… Impacts all copyright holders for any content
residing in Europe.
… Should we be working through use-cases.
Tzviya: What would be goal of the use-cases be? Yes, does impact all of us.
liisamk: Should look at it
from a legal perspective -- can we make people of aware of legal
requirements... we can't create standard.
… Use cases related to publishing business needs.
… Thoughts/concerns?
Cristina: Doesn't think
use-cases are what's needed; what they need to know if there is
interest in finding a solution that can be proposed to the EU
Commission.
… If not time/interest, we should just say no.
<Ralph> 24-Nov Text Data Minining discussion
Cristina: They don't think
it's important to have a full standard -- just requirements and
proposed solution.
… Small working group on that?
… Unclear if such interest exists?
… Time is running short. We need to let them know.
<Ralph> [see slides 6-7 of Laurent's 24-Nov presentation ]
George: With data privacy
& collection issue -- issues with tracking titles read, bookmarks,
reading progression, highlights -- is that all part of this?
… I/s it bigger/smaller than that?
Cristina: If a crawler wants
to mine, there should be vocabulary to expression rights to mine.
… not for people, but for content.
… Vocab to design these mining rights.
George: More from of publisher perspective? Nothing really personal?
ivan: Whatever data is there.
liisamk: Actual content not
reading/purchasing data.
… Not clear who the miners are and how they would
access it with. Is it only trusted partners in the distribution
cycle?
tzviya: +1
ivan: What Laurent wanted: help in tech work to be done (instructions to mining bot); and, a look over their shoulders to provide business input on their tech work.
Christina: Need language of specifying these rights.
tzviya: Tech proposals in
the scholarly world: robot-text, PDF XMP, identifiers to resolve
cross-refs -- not too helpful in the trade world. What kinda of
Metadata can exist that is inseperable from the content ?
… Don't have these identifiers in the trade world.
… How is metadata associated with content?
liisamk: We are interested, don't have a lot of time. Put together some sort of workshop with them to define business requirements?
<Daihei> +1 to Liisa
tzviya: Business input not needed now, it's technical input that's needed.
cristina: Maybe next level of detail of technical discussion with Laurent?
<Ralph> TDM Reservation Protocol [Nov 2020 draft document cited by Laurent]
cristina: create small
working group?
… we may take too long.
<Ralph> [[
<Ralph> Members of the European Publishing Industry are therefore seeking collaboration with W3C and BSA members involved in the development of TDM platforms or services, for the specification of a simple and practical technical solution capable of expressing the rules set by the new EU Copyright Directive - Art.4.
<Ralph> ]]
garth: Second tech meeting is an easy thing to do?
cristina: Can try to find out what they really want.
Ralph: +1 Cristina. EDRLab could propose a W3C Community Group -- maybe leading to WG status. Would such CG get populated?
Garth: if Cristina chats with Laurent, she could ask him if a Community Group is a useful place to start
garth: Cristina should chat with Laurent (maybe with Ralph too).
Cristina: seems like a good idea; we'll have to see if there's enough commitment to make a CG
cristina: Let's do it.
ivan: Does CG give them what they need? They already have some sort of group. What they may need is really feedback from BG.
<liisamk> +1 to ivan
ivan: But the phone call SG. Maybe Ivan to join too.
<Garth> +1
cristina: I will organize.
Daihei: I would like to join too. Did get some feedback from Laurent's report. Will try to gather interest from Japanese publishers.
Audio & Video enhancements.
liisamk: Is there a need to
remote remote A/V references?
… hard to use IRL.
… A/V not really taken up by trade publishing. But,
Edu is another story.
Garth: the discussion we had
in the EPUB WG on this topic...
… we've done part of this
… tags can reference resources that do not require
fallbacks
… the example that was raised was putting a Youtube
video in an iframe
… @@
… reading systems ought to support @@
… AV tags do part of this
George: We're being criticized my mainstream folks -- not keeping up with inclusion of video clips. We should provide help and guidance on such usage.
ivan: If we go too far, we depart from a "book in box" and offline usage.
liisamk: Hear what Dave (via
Ivan) says -- but more and more content wants to have links to Web to
operate well.
… Download of said content (via external players) is
an issue.
… Can we point to more secure resources?
tzviya: Need to consider
Dave's issue (in a box).
… A11Y is an issue; if you go outside of RS -- via
link or external player -- big can of worms to open. No longer
controlling the UX and A11Y experience.
Avneesh: 3rd party content -- gives away a loophole for A11Y of content.
<tzviya> +1 to Avneesh
Avneesh: EPUB 3 WG -- maybe hit wall with Privacy and security review. Download-able Zip, oh boy.
George: EPUB size limitations? Videos can get big.
liisamk: Limits come up around 650 or 800 Megabytes.
ivan: NBU network issues.
George: Turtle speeds in Montana!
ivan: Maybe the recommendation should be to steer clear of this issue.
Liisa: If I had a way to reference things outside the package, that would help
Garth: we could say that is supported
Liisa: immersive content
would feel better if it was in an iframe
… it would feel that you were immersed in it
Garth: for me, the a/v tag is immersive
liisamk: Anything else?
Smart Agents
liisamk: Should we
contribute use-cases to W3C's upcoming workshop on Smart Agents?
… business needs.
tzviya: maybe just a few
notes in github.
… not terribly formal.
<Ralph> [+1; add to the
thread on https://
tzviya: Rights is an interesting topic too.
George: Smart speakers read EPUBs -- using DAISY commands -- cool!
tzviya: Folks in W3C are probably not really aware.
<tzviya> article about
rights https://
Avneesh: Not just EPUB.
Karen: There are many
related technologies and use cases in this area.
… Haven't really created the graphic of roadmap to
express the broad spectrum or opportunity.
George: Royalties for broadcast via smart speakers is an issue too.
tzviya: Added link re
audiobook rights (above).
… Interesting APA work -- machine versus human
narration.
George: Pronunciation with reading text items is very important.
Avneesh: First use-case was
audiobooks -- TTS is not getting important too.
… There is six intelligent voice groups in the W3C
now.
liisamk: Folks should be encouraged to add to use-cases for workshop on Smart Agents. And George/Avneesh re Smart Speakers and A11Y.
<Karen> +1 more educational information
George: In Avneesh's task force -- extracting out EU requirements and comparing with EPUB A11Y and looking to identify gaps.
tzviya: A11Y as part of DEI efforts -- a nice win.
liisamk: Similar at PRH.
[Laurent arrives]
Laurent: we had a meeting to
try to align people around a11y
… there will be new efforts to promote and communicate
how to make a11y a reality on all the chain of the publishing
industry
… from publishers to distributors, libraries, web
sites, and payment systems on web sites
… a question was how to signal visually and easily and
in a standard manner that something is accessible
… this is converging with the W3C/DAISY initiative
around UX
… there is a combined effort in France to push this
AOB
Liisa: the Publishing CG is
starting to talk about use cases for non-linear fiction
… also, we're planning another 2-session webinar in
March