Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

07 Feb 2020



kevin, Hidde, Bill, Lewis, Helen, EricE, Daniel, Laura, brent, shadi, dboudreau, Howard
Vicki, Sylvie, Estella, Mark
EricE, Sharron


<scribe> scribe: EricE

<scribe> scribenick: yatil

ATAG Report Tool

Brent: Hidde is working on the report tool.

<scribe> scribe: Sharron

Hidde: we are trying to create a list of accessible authoring tools. To support that, we are creating the ATAG re[ort tool for vendors to be able to understnad what we are looking for in the list. Thanks to all who responded.
... some people think there should be a closer association with the list since it will provide input for it.

<yatil> Results of the Survey

<yatil> Open issues/milestone for version 0.2

Hidde: coments on the prototype were useful as well, thanks. I have taken most things to the GitHub list of bugs. Generally people were quite positive and I got some good suggestions as well. I will be working on the next draft in the next few weeks and will bring back soon to EO> Any comments or questions about where we are?
... OK then tanks very much for your input and I will use it in the current work.

Brent: we will see this come around soon, we have a packed month of review in February as we get ready for our face to face. Aprreciate all the work on that Hidde.

ARRM update

Brent: The idea is to get a survey ready for you early next week that will run for a week. You can provide input on that draft, more after Denis' intro.

<yatil> /

Denis: We're about to release the first public veiw of the work of the last couple of years. At our F2F last year, we walked the group through the draft, took your feedback, changed the approach based on your input, and added beyond the primary into the secondary responsibility levels.
... we want to ask you to walk through the decsision tree, and role definition. Provide feedback and then the next week we will introduce a role to walk through for your comment.
... our goal is to get to CSUN with a presentable draft with a URL that is stable. We will present at CSUN get more feedback and then present again at AccessU. Have a non-draft version in time for our EO charter.
... I will be at the F2F on Tuesday only and walk through again to see where we might still need tweaks to the version before the presentation. That's where we are, happy to take questions or comments.

Brent: At CSUN, what is the main purpose of the presentation?

Denis: We will present it as an interactive activity. I first introduced the concept at CSUN 10 years agao (!) Symbolically to me it is great to have a first version unveiled in W3C colors, to be able to walk people thorugh the history and then provide feedback.

Brent: There will be a survey soon. First one to understand the roles and decision tree. Next to walk the UX designer through the resource.
... It will be a draft but not yet a part of the official site until it is a final doc. When we review, it will be very clear that it is a draft. We will seek EO approval to post as a draft with the disclaimer that it is not yet polished. We will do more close review later before publiscation bt for now just want to agree it is presentable as a draft.
... comment, questions?
... We do have a lot of work coming through so we will be pinging the group with reminders, etc. Thanks you Denis and group!

Curriculum - next module

<yatil> Developing Accessible Content (Intermediate)

<yatil> Survey Results

<dmontalvo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/dacfrsilo/results

Daniel: Thaks all for your response to the survey. I get that it is difficult to judge such a high level resoource without having a clear idea about what it will look like going forward. But wour comments were very helpful to help me shape what's next.
... I appreciate the suggestions for changing the way we talk about these things. For example, the suggestion not to walk straight into 'Menus' but to talk more generally about navigation; not straight into 'Images' but to reflect on the importance and circumstances of alternative text.
... comments about including browser support for some of the recommendations of 'Tables'topic. Having the essentential HTML elemtns - like <p> and <header> Presented in the context of accessibility.
... These were all very helpful and I wonder now if there are other comments or questions?
... For example, Howard missed that we did not address basic elelemtns like paragraphs, lists, and headings. I propose to include those in the section on Semantics. Add Learning Outcomes that include those basic elements and include teaching activities to help guide instructors to teach that and relate it to accessiiblity.
... wondering if that will address your concern Howard?

Howard: Yes wanted to be sure it was included and what yoou propose sounds fin to me.
... It would seem to be important for that to be the starting point and go from there to the more complex.

Shadi: To get to that comment, was it that you were looking at the curriculum with a particular question of 'where are these elements and how will they be taught' or were you trying to find more general info?
... by integrating these elements are we hiding them so much that you felt we were not including what you wanted to teach?

Howard: It is the first module in this unit, by covering structure and semantics, these elemetns are an important part of that and it popped out to me when I did not see it.

Shadi: But it is part of it through Easy Checks, does it need to be called out more explicitly?

Howard: Yes it is in the Easy Checks but I think those items - parpagraphs, lists, and headings need to be called out more clearly.
... what is the barrier for *not* including it here?

Shadi: I am afraid that the expectation will be raised for specific topics like keyboard, etc to be here but it is meant to be more seamlessly integrated.

Howard: If others don't see what I see and mis it, maybe it is my particular point of view.

<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to suggest ‘the basics’ as a starting point

Kevin: I would not start with semantics and structure, it would be to start with very very basic things about structure and content. Then link in the semantics.

<dboudreau> it's hard for me to contribute to this discussion since I don't have much context, but to me, it feels like the very first thing to teach about accessibility is keyboard access... semantics and structure does seem like a steep first step for me as well.

Kevin: what I felt was to dive into semantics and structure as the very beginning misses the introuction piece to orient users to the issue in a relatable way.

Daniel: If we talk first about how AT renders information within the intro?

<dboudreau> ... which I'm not seeing as a the topic covered in the Curricula

Kevin: No not really.

Daniel: I think putting this in the very first module might help people understand what they are going to be reading in the next module.
... we may need to have a sense of the key topics that will be introduced.

Laura: I was confused by Howard's concern since the structural elements do seem to be introduced here and covered by theLearning Outcomes. The ARIA references may be too much for an intro.

Daniel: Yes it is mentioned but not developed, maybe that is what I need to work on next. Thanks for mentioning the ARIA, I will look at how the subset of ARIA attributes are introduced.

Eric: People should have done the previous unit first so that people understand issues of keyboard nav etc. This will be building on that and we should not repeat it here. Don't want to go back to the basics all the time. Maybe just note that we are building and expect people to have that basic exposure.

Daniel: Yes, but it was a high level exposire, we may need to use this as an opportunity to deepen the understanding of things like - what doe it mean and how to achieve clear focus indication for example.

Eric: What about a section of what does accessibility mean in development and take high level concepts and provide techniques.

Daniel: Yes that is the point of this, that we will turn the concepts into more developer freindly language. We will suggest that anyone taking this course should ahve taken the Intro.

Brent: I just want us to keep in mind that we are making this to allow people to choose their approach based on their understanding of their audience. Good curriculum is written without repeating information but expaning and building on it.
... in part of the over all curricula explanation we should reiterate that it is the responsibility of the instructor/professor to uderstand their audience/students and to choose parts of the curriculum that are appropriate to their class. While we need to be logical in our approach, we cannot proscribe how it is used.

Daniel: Yes it is good to be reminded of this balance.

Helen: The confusion is about how muh detail should be included and what the point of curricula is?

Daniel: Not yet to the detail, more a question about do we need this essential elements module that will lead to the developer.

Helen: I did understand that the Structure section would inclue the basics of paragraphs, headers, and lists. To me this module seems geared to developers.

Shadi: I agree not to return again to the basics.However, we specifically designed the intro to be understandable for all audiences. In the online version, we cover those things but not from a technical perspective. There may need to be some carrying forward of the rationale for this so we may not be able to compeltely avoid some level of repetition

Daniel: I am hearing that this structure as it is can serve the purpose but need to address the elements that are not clear. I will work on how to bring those structural elements forward more clearly. Thanks you all for your comments.
... need to decide if we want to leave the structural elements as part of the intro or if the intro of accessiiblity from a developer perspective needs to be pulled out eparately.

s/eparately separately

Brent: Surevey is still open through today. If you have further thoughts about it, please add those here.
... any further questions on the next module of the WAI curricula?


Brent: We are focused on promotion of the course that was built form the curriculum. Please do promotion of this course and document what outreach you have done.

<brent> Outreach wiki page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Promoting_W3Cx_Intro_Course

Shadi: It is open until the end of April. There is good feedback from nontechnical people. For example, a teacher in Guana who has low vision himself gave positve feedback, people appreciate the user-centric approach.
... there is a bit of an issue in the accessibility of some of the EdX features so we are not promoting to the extent that we will when we resolve those issues.
... first time we have doen this, will close in April to do an assessment. At that time, we will fix any bugs, etc (expected for a first release) and then re-launch with translations, bug fixes etc.

Kevin: Developed by WAI?

Shadi: In cooperation with UNESCO.
... IITE

Brent: You can take the course a s free course or pay for a certificate.

Shadi: You can switch to certificate at any point. Same content, only the certificate track gets access to the assessment questions.
... fees go to support the MOOC infrastructure.

Brent: Please promote the course and document your efforts on the wiki page.

Shadi: When you enroll in the audit mode you have access only for 4 weeks. In certificate mode, you have access through the end of April.

Eval Videos

<yatil> Eval Video Butterfly Approval until Thursday 13

Shadi: We have completed 1, 2, 3 and 4 ready to publish. Yay, I think they turned out really well. Of course there may still be bugs. We have a survey to allow you to review and comment on 4 very short videos.looking for bugs at this time not general comment.
... can only fix bugs not make general changes.Have had many editorial rounds so this is bug fix of the final versions.
... questions?
... OK then as we consdier Video #5 which has been our problem child, I think we are close to nailing this one as well.

<yatil> Video 5 Visuals

Shadi: it is about to go into animation. I have updated the visuals in the script. (shares screen)

<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to say ‘great’, except the squiggly lines

<Helen> +q

Kevin: The lines of the process circle in addition to be squiggly may need to also be the gray and then become black or green. The visual indication of being stronger is not clear now.

Sharron +1

Kevin: I can't think of a better way right now, may have something to do with the arrow.

Sharron: A broken faded line (maybe even without the arrow tip) that gets darker and stronger

Helen: Before it was going from orange to blue and I asked what was the piont of the color change? I do like the idea of it faded and broken like an icon that is disabled, faded out.
... before the people were included it was not optimal. Having a disabled looking process, maybe with broken, hashed lines, it will look invigorated.

Shadi: What about the icons?
... so I heard the comments about the arrows transitioning to become stronger and the icons will only change color?

<Helen> +1 to the consensus

<kevin> +1

<brent> +1

Sharron: +1

<Jenn> +1

<Laura> +1

<yatil> +1

<Lewis> +1

Shadi: The people will appear, the process circle will fade, more people will appear until the people are very dense by the time the stars appear.

<shadi> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tvwfb5af6udindt/M%C3%A4nnchen%20zu%20Welt%20V1.mp4?dl=0

Sharron: Lots of people?

<yatil> Transition OK for me

<kevin> Transition looks good

Sharron: +1

<Lewis> +1

<hdv> +1

<brent> +1

<Laura> +1

<Helen> +1

<Jenn> +1

Shadi: Thank you all, I will take this to production. That's a wrap.


Brent: Exciting to see these videos come into shape, thank you Shadi. We have the curriculam survey open until the end of the day. Eval Video approval survey as well until next week but you may want to get this one doen since another survey comes next week.
... Denis will post a survey for the ARRM work early next week. Are there Any more comments or questions? Many thnaks to all for your help and great comments.

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2020/02/07 15:26:24 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Howard: +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number -> Access code: 645 424 616 #//
FAILED: s/Bill: Some one needs to go on mute. There's an echo//
Succeeded: s/Some one needs to go on mute. There's an echo//
Succeeded: s|Some one needs to go on mute. There's an echo||
Succeeded: s|s/Bill:||
Succeeded: s/imprtatn/important/
Succeeded: s/Chacks/Checks/
Succeeded: s/orinet/orient/
Succeeded: s/rensers/renders/
Succeeded: s/parapgraphs/paragraphs/
WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/eparately separately
Succeeded: s/modeul/module/
Succeeded: s/porcess/process/
Default Present: kevin, Hidde, Bill, Lewis, Helen, EricE, Daniel, Laura, brent, shadi, dboudreau, Howard
Present: kevin Hidde Bill Lewis Helen EricE Daniel Laura brent shadi dboudreau Howard

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Estella, Shawn)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Vicki, Sylvie, Estella, Mark

Regrets: Vicki Sylvie Estella Mark
Found Scribe: EricE
Found ScribeNick: yatil
Found Scribe: Sharron
Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron
Scribes: EricE, Sharron
ScribeNicks: yatil, Sharron
Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Agenda
Found Date: 07 Feb 2020
People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]