<scribe> scribe: EricE
<scribe> scribenick: yatil
Brent: Hidde is working on the report tool.
<scribe> scribe: Sharron
Hidde: we are trying to create a
list of accessible authoring tools. To support that, we are
creating the ATAG re[ort tool for vendors to be able to
understnad what we are looking for in the list. Thanks to all
who responded.
... some people think there should be a closer association with
the list since it will provide input for it.
<yatil> Results of the Survey
<yatil> Open issues/milestone for version 0.2
Hidde: coments on the prototype
were useful as well, thanks. I have taken most things to the
GitHub list of bugs. Generally people were quite positive and I
got some good suggestions as well. I will be working on the
next draft in the next few weeks and will bring back soon to
EO> Any comments or questions about where we are?
... OK then tanks very much for your input and I will use it in
the current work.
Brent: we will see this come around soon, we have a packed month of review in February as we get ready for our face to face. Aprreciate all the work on that Hidde.
Brent: The idea is to get a survey ready for you early next week that will run for a week. You can provide input on that draft, more after Denis' intro.
<yatil> /
Denis: We're about to release the
first public veiw of the work of the last couple of years. At
our F2F last year, we walked the group through the draft, took
your feedback, changed the approach based on your input, and
added beyond the primary into the secondary responsibility
levels.
... we want to ask you to walk through the decsision tree, and
role definition. Provide feedback and then the next week we
will introduce a role to walk through for your comment.
... our goal is to get to CSUN with a presentable draft with a
URL that is stable. We will present at CSUN get more feedback
and then present again at AccessU. Have a non-draft version in
time for our EO charter.
... I will be at the F2F on Tuesday only and walk through again
to see where we might still need tweaks to the version before
the presentation. That's where we are, happy to take questions
or comments.
Brent: At CSUN, what is the main purpose of the presentation?
Denis: We will present it as an interactive activity. I first introduced the concept at CSUN 10 years agao (!) Symbolically to me it is great to have a first version unveiled in W3C colors, to be able to walk people thorugh the history and then provide feedback.
Brent: There will be a survey
soon. First one to understand the roles and decision tree. Next
to walk the UX designer through the resource.
... It will be a draft but not yet a part of the official site
until it is a final doc. When we review, it will be very clear
that it is a draft. We will seek EO approval to post as a draft
with the disclaimer that it is not yet polished. We will do
more close review later before publiscation bt for now just
want to agree it is presentable as a draft.
... comment, questions?
... We do have a lot of work coming through so we will be
pinging the group with reminders, etc. Thanks you Denis and
group!
<yatil> Developing Accessible Content (Intermediate)
<yatil> Survey Results
<dmontalvo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/dacfrsilo/results
Daniel: Thaks all for your
response to the survey. I get that it is difficult to judge
such a high level resoource without having a clear idea about
what it will look like going forward. But wour comments were
very helpful to help me shape what's next.
... I appreciate the suggestions for changing the way we talk
about these things. For example, the suggestion not to walk
straight into 'Menus' but to talk more generally about
navigation; not straight into 'Images' but to reflect on the
importance and circumstances of alternative text.
... comments about including browser support for some of the
recommendations of 'Tables'topic. Having the essentential HTML
elemtns - like <p> and <header> Presented in the
context of accessibility.
... These were all very helpful and I wonder now if there are
other comments or questions?
... For example, Howard missed that we did not address basic
elelemtns like paragraphs, lists, and headings. I propose to
include those in the section on Semantics. Add Learning
Outcomes that include those basic elements and include teaching
activities to help guide instructors to teach that and relate
it to accessiiblity.
... wondering if that will address your concern Howard?
Howard: Yes wanted to be sure it
was included and what yoou propose sounds fin to me.
... It would seem to be important for that to be the starting
point and go from there to the more complex.
Shadi: To get to that comment,
was it that you were looking at the curriculum with a
particular question of 'where are these elements and how will
they be taught' or were you trying to find more general
info?
... by integrating these elements are we hiding them so much
that you felt we were not including what you wanted to
teach?
Howard: It is the first module in this unit, by covering structure and semantics, these elemetns are an important part of that and it popped out to me when I did not see it.
Shadi: But it is part of it through Easy Checks, does it need to be called out more explicitly?
Howard: Yes it is in the Easy
Checks but I think those items - parpagraphs, lists, and
headings need to be called out more clearly.
... what is the barrier for *not* including it here?
Shadi: I am afraid that the expectation will be raised for specific topics like keyboard, etc to be here but it is meant to be more seamlessly integrated.
Howard: If others don't see what I see and mis it, maybe it is my particular point of view.
<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to suggest ‘the basics’ as a starting point
Kevin: I would not start with semantics and structure, it would be to start with very very basic things about structure and content. Then link in the semantics.
<dboudreau> it's hard for me to contribute to this discussion since I don't have much context, but to me, it feels like the very first thing to teach about accessibility is keyboard access... semantics and structure does seem like a steep first step for me as well.
Kevin: what I felt was to dive into semantics and structure as the very beginning misses the introuction piece to orient users to the issue in a relatable way.
Daniel: If we talk first about how AT renders information within the intro?
<dboudreau> ... which I'm not seeing as a the topic covered in the Curricula
Kevin: No not really.
Daniel: I think putting this in
the very first module might help people understand what they
are going to be reading in the next module.
... we may need to have a sense of the key topics that will be
introduced.
Laura: I was confused by Howard's concern since the structural elements do seem to be introduced here and covered by theLearning Outcomes. The ARIA references may be too much for an intro.
Daniel: Yes it is mentioned but not developed, maybe that is what I need to work on next. Thanks for mentioning the ARIA, I will look at how the subset of ARIA attributes are introduced.
Eric: People should have done the previous unit first so that people understand issues of keyboard nav etc. This will be building on that and we should not repeat it here. Don't want to go back to the basics all the time. Maybe just note that we are building and expect people to have that basic exposure.
Daniel: Yes, but it was a high level exposire, we may need to use this as an opportunity to deepen the understanding of things like - what doe it mean and how to achieve clear focus indication for example.
Eric: What about a section of what does accessibility mean in development and take high level concepts and provide techniques.
Daniel: Yes that is the point of this, that we will turn the concepts into more developer freindly language. We will suggest that anyone taking this course should ahve taken the Intro.
Brent: I just want us to keep in
mind that we are making this to allow people to choose their
approach based on their understanding of their audience. Good
curriculum is written without repeating information but
expaning and building on it.
... in part of the over all curricula explanation we should
reiterate that it is the responsibility of the
instructor/professor to uderstand their audience/students and
to choose parts of the curriculum that are appropriate to their
class. While we need to be logical in our approach, we cannot
proscribe how it is used.
Daniel: Yes it is good to be reminded of this balance.
Helen: The confusion is about how muh detail should be included and what the point of curricula is?
Daniel: Not yet to the detail, more a question about do we need this essential elements module that will lead to the developer.
Helen: I did understand that the Structure section would inclue the basics of paragraphs, headers, and lists. To me this module seems geared to developers.
Shadi: I agree not to return again to the basics.However, we specifically designed the intro to be understandable for all audiences. In the online version, we cover those things but not from a technical perspective. There may need to be some carrying forward of the rationale for this so we may not be able to compeltely avoid some level of repetition
Daniel: I am hearing that this
structure as it is can serve the purpose but need to address
the elements that are not clear. I will work on how to bring
those structural elements forward more clearly. Thanks you all
for your comments.
... need to decide if we want to leave the structural elements
as part of the intro or if the intro of accessiiblity from a
developer perspective needs to be pulled out eparately.
s/eparately separately
Brent: Surevey is still open
through today. If you have further thoughts about it, please
add those here.
... any further questions on the next module of the WAI
curricula?
Brent: We are focused on promotion of the course that was built form the curriculum. Please do promotion of this course and document what outreach you have done.
<brent> Outreach wiki page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Promoting_W3Cx_Intro_Course
Shadi: It is open until the end
of April. There is good feedback from nontechnical people. For
example, a teacher in Guana who has low vision himself gave
positve feedback, people appreciate the user-centric
approach.
... there is a bit of an issue in the accessibility of some of
the EdX features so we are not promoting to the extent that we
will when we resolve those issues.
... first time we have doen this, will close in April to do an
assessment. At that time, we will fix any bugs, etc (expected
for a first release) and then re-launch with translations, bug
fixes etc.
Kevin: Developed by WAI?
Shadi: In cooperation with
UNESCO.
... IITE
Brent: You can take the course a s free course or pay for a certificate.
Shadi: You can switch to
certificate at any point. Same content, only the certificate
track gets access to the assessment questions.
... fees go to support the MOOC infrastructure.
Brent: Please promote the course and document your efforts on the wiki page.
Shadi: When you enroll in the audit mode you have access only for 4 weeks. In certificate mode, you have access through the end of April.
<yatil> Eval Video Butterfly Approval until Thursday 13
Shadi: We have completed 1, 2, 3
and 4 ready to publish. Yay, I think they turned out really
well. Of course there may still be bugs. We have a survey to
allow you to review and comment on 4 very short videos.looking
for bugs at this time not general comment.
... can only fix bugs not make general changes.Have had many
editorial rounds so this is bug fix of the final
versions.
... questions?
... OK then as we consdier Video #5 which has been our problem
child, I think we are close to nailing this one as well.
<yatil> Video 5 Visuals
Shadi: it is about to go into animation. I have updated the visuals in the script. (shares screen)
<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to say ‘great’, except the squiggly lines
<Helen> +q
Kevin: The lines of the process circle in addition to be squiggly may need to also be the gray and then become black or green. The visual indication of being stronger is not clear now.
Sharron +1
Kevin: I can't think of a better way right now, may have something to do with the arrow.
Sharron: A broken faded line (maybe even without the arrow tip) that gets darker and stronger
Helen: Before it was going from
orange to blue and I asked what was the piont of the color
change? I do like the idea of it faded and broken like an icon
that is disabled, faded out.
... before the people were included it was not optimal. Having
a disabled looking process, maybe with broken, hashed lines, it
will look invigorated.
Shadi: What about the
icons?
... so I heard the comments about the arrows transitioning to
become stronger and the icons will only change color?
<Helen> +1 to the consensus
<kevin> +1
<brent> +1
Sharron: +1
<Jenn> +1
<Laura> +1
<yatil> +1
<Lewis> +1
Shadi: The people will appear, the process circle will fade, more people will appear until the people are very dense by the time the stars appear.
<shadi> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tvwfb5af6udindt/M%C3%A4nnchen%20zu%20Welt%20V1.mp4?dl=0
Sharron: Lots of people?
<yatil> Transition OK for me
<kevin> Transition looks good
Sharron: +1
<Lewis> +1
<hdv> +1
<brent> +1
<Laura> +1
<Helen> +1
<Jenn> +1
Shadi: Thank you all, I will take this to production. That's a wrap.
Brent: Exciting to see these
videos come into shape, thank you Shadi. We have the curriculam
survey open until the end of the day. Eval Video approval
survey as well until next week but you may want to get this one
doen since another survey comes next week.
... Denis will post a survey for the ARRM work early next week.
Are there Any more comments or questions? Many thnaks to all
for your help and great comments.
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Howard: +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number -> Access code: 645 424 616 #// FAILED: s/Bill: Some one needs to go on mute. There's an echo// Succeeded: s/Some one needs to go on mute. There's an echo// Succeeded: s|Some one needs to go on mute. There's an echo|| Succeeded: s|s/Bill:|| Succeeded: s/imprtatn/important/ Succeeded: s/Chacks/Checks/ Succeeded: s/orinet/orient/ Succeeded: s/rensers/renders/ Succeeded: s/parapgraphs/paragraphs/ WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/eparately separately Succeeded: s/modeul/module/ Succeeded: s/porcess/process/ Default Present: kevin, Hidde, Bill, Lewis, Helen, EricE, Daniel, Laura, brent, shadi, dboudreau, Howard Present: kevin Hidde Bill Lewis Helen EricE Daniel Laura brent shadi dboudreau Howard WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Estella, Shawn) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Vicki, Sylvie, Estella, Mark Regrets: Vicki Sylvie Estella Mark Found Scribe: EricE Found ScribeNick: yatil Found Scribe: Sharron Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron Scribes: EricE, Sharron ScribeNicks: yatil, Sharron Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Agenda Found Date: 07 Feb 2020 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]