- Minutes -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

31 Jan 2020


Brent began by requesting everyone to add to the wiki about the upcoming EOWG Face to Face meeting at CSUN Information is important to have for accountability and planning purposes. The remainder of the meeting was dedicated to a review and discussion of the visual graphic elements developed for Eval Video #5. Asked to complete a survey to approve graphics, several said they could not envision it. Shadi led a discussion to explain what would happen while the voice over was narrating. Conclusions were as follows:

Shadi will take this back to the animators and complete this series of videos for presentation at CSUN. The meeting concluded with a reminder to complete surveys and continue to keep up with work for this week. Thanks all!



Sharron, Kevin, Helen, Lewis, Shawn, EricE, Laura, Howard, Daniel, Brent, Shadi
Estella, Jenn, Mark
Sharron, Kevin


EO F2F meeting in March

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_March_2020#Participation_2

Brent: Please fill out the availability survey and indicate what days you will be there. Helps for my accountability to Pearson as sponsor and to know how many to prepare for. Plan to be near the hotel but not use that facility this year.

Video 5 graphics

Shadi: We have reviewed the script previously and so did not need to consider anything other than the graphics. I would like to thank all who participated. A few commented that they can't quite envision it, so we will go through and talk about how it will animate and be presented
... (shares screen to demonstrate graphics in place) icon of authoring, coding, design, QA in no particular order since it is iterative.
... making sure that people know they are on the screen for a while, is it OK?

Shadi: no reaction, so moving on. The process is represented in a burnt orange kind of color. As the process is enriched by the involvement of people, the color changes to blue.

Kevin: The orientation of the pencil - should it not match the orientation of the paintbrush?

Shadi: Yes, still not correct, thanks for catching that.

Helen: What is the significance of the color change?

Shadi: Meant to show a more effective process giving better results.

Helen: It seems it must be inferred, is not at all obvious.

Shadi: What do others think? Too much of a stretch?

Laura: I agree. I am not sure about the color change, may not be necessary, but have no strong feelings.

Shadi: Later on, we do not have the people any more because it makes it too busy. We wanted to match the color as an indication it is the same people-involved process.

Kevin: Not sure that this indicates it, there is no real significance to those colors. Red and green perhaps but then there are red/green perception issues. It is the lack of meaning in these colors more than the color change that is troubling.

Shadi: As the smaller shadow icons are sent into the process, the color change is gradual.

Shawn:I'm not that worried about color change and accessiblity, given the text narration and the little people going moving into the process ring. I mildly like the color change.

Brent: Color changes if it is something going from bad to good would be red to green as Kevin suggested. But since we need to get back to the blue of the palette, maybe red to blue rather than orange to blue.

Shadi: The blue is not required, could go from red to green. Can use any color we want to associate with that.

Laura: The animation of the people makes more sense, is more understandable than the color, but would like to see it in action.

Shawn: I like the color change and what if the icons go from a light gray to a brighter color.
... the color change show that the people have an effect, not only that they are there but it shows the people change the process.

<Howard> I like Shawn's suggestion from grey to bright

<kevin> +1 to bright, happy, successful process change

Shadi: We wanted the people to appear in within the dev stage icons - pen, paintbrush, etc. Seemed to add complexity and wanted to avoid that message.

Shawn: I agree not to complicate the circle (good without extra people added to the circle),but could do a light grey with fuzzy edges and when people are added, colors become bright and lines sharper.

Eric: I am not clear about what the animation will look like. The shadow people emerge - is that just one or multiples?

Shadi: More than one but since we often get the message not to do too much with animation I am not sure there will be "multiples".

Eric: So they go to arrows? Maybe we could have the circles fill up and become clearer and easier to see.

Shadi: Not only changing the color but changing shapes or clarity of lines, etc


Sharron: some way that the arrows are wavy and weak, adding people makes the arrows clearer, sharper

Helen: The people are strong colors and those that are sent out are quite faint, might it be useful to have an outline?

Shadi: To summarize, first turn the pen around. Then change not only the color but somehow the clarity of the lines or shapes. Finally the mini-mes have an outline or somehow are more perceivable as they move around.

Shawn: There was also some support that the first color is a pale, fuzzy gray and the color change becomes brighter and stronger. This is eye candy animation, the voice over is good alternate meaning, a 7 to 1 contrast is not needed in this context.

<kevin> +1 for grey to brighter colour. Less meaning embedded then.

Shadi: Happy if you will suggest some colors as well
... the last suggestion I got was not to include the AT icons, likely to be just the mortarboard and a lightbulb as devs have learned about the value of including people.
... then in Sequence 5, we have gauge that indicates growth. Got a suggestion for another icon instead.

Shawn: I don't object to the original one, this one simply seems to show scale, the metrics on the right are wighted and connote 'better' somehow

<kevin> +1 to Shawn's alternative graphic

Shadi: So I am hearing that stylistically it is 'cooler' which I don't quite get but the other point, that this one shows the increase more clearly, I do understand.

<brentb> I am okay with Shavin's suggestion

<yatil> +0 not feeling strongly

Kevin: I agree that the alternative one makes the point more clearly.

<Helen> +1 as feel Shawn feels quite passionately about this!

<Howard> +1 to alternate graphic also

<Laura> don't feel strongly

<Lewis> +1

Shadi: Next is another point. Viewers just learned that involving people increases understanding, that motivation increases, and now we make the point that development is more efficient.
... Showing an arrow made of dots, it will zoom in to show that the dots are people. The zooming reveals more and more people inside the arrow with the idea that more of them are being served by a dev process that involves people.

Shawn: If only up for a few seconds, it is not clear that those are meant to represent people.
... maybe just have people instead of the arrow.
... don't feel strongly

Shadi: Are you saying that the people will be growing in number instead of the arrow?

Shawn: Maybe, or beneath the arrow (to represent a more efficient process) the number of people grow to show that more people will be served.

Shadi: Dev is more efficient, we see the arrow going up. As we say your products work better..., more people start filling up under the arrow - is that right?

Shawn: Sure and can even overlap with it.

Helen: I was thinking that the whole visual concept is a bit complicated. Maybe remove the arrow and just show the people.

Shadi: Show the arrow, let it fade and then show the people?

Helen: Yes for simplicity.

Shadi: and avoid the zooming in

<shawn> +1 to separate business arrow from people-icons

Shadi: So to repeat - start with the business arrow, arrow fades but axis remains and people icons begin to appear within the shape proscribed by the arrow.

Kevin: I don't see the graph growth makes that point. A better point that connects the growth of people with the world icon. Not sure it is useful to connect to previous ones.
... Present the arrow to make the efficiency point, end the arrow, then start filling in the little people icons. They fill the screen and then transform to world/heart illustration indicating social responsibility.

<krisannekinney> +1 to social responsibility

Kevin: making the connection and then transition between efficiency and people.

Shawn: there are currently stars in between, like the association that more people are served, don't need to have the connection to efficiency. People appearing within the circle seem like the PWD we had in the circle earlier. I like the stars in between.

Shadi: The people icons are just meant to be generic people. Stars are meant to be satisfaction ratings, more people are happy.
... the suggestion is that the efficiency arrow disappears and there is a new idea. Do people pop up randomly or do we have them appear to make a particular shape.

Shawn: Sequnce4 is about the process, leave that. Seq5 is about process, leave that. Maybe when we get to 6 and 7 we let the process circle fade out and then just focus on the people and they can appear randomly - that will totally work.

Shadi: I want to keep Helen's point about simplicity in mind.
... want to keep the process circle in place to remind viewers we are seeing results from that process.
... suggest we keep the process circle in place.

Shawn: Does the circle of process appear again later in the sequence?

Shadi: Yes it returns in 8 and 9
... Suggested sequence - in 6 we have the arrow, process circle remains, as the narration continues, number of people icons appear and continue to grow, stars appear and are emphasized when greater customer satisfaction is mentioned, then process circle fades as the animation morphs into world and heart.

Lewis: It all seems too complicated to me and I would only listen to the narration.

Sharron: +1

Howard: I think the graphics work well, I like the idea of people filling up the circle and transistioning to the world/heart. It's OK.

<Helen> +q

Brent: I feel like I understood what you described, like that people pop up - I am OK with that, don't have a better idea.

KrisAnne: Whatever animations we land on, encourage us to make them gradual, not too much (as someone who gets migraines) Words are most important, animation should just be a support.

Shadi: Examples from previous?

KrisAnne: Seem OK a bit of concern about people popping up - what will be the rate,etc?

Helen: Instead of zooming in, just have a group of people with stars coming from them to the star review, cutting out the group of people on their own.

Shadi: What happens in between the business arrow and the stars in that case?

Helen: Can I say 'nothing'?

Shadi: So the people all appear at once rather than popping up.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say the narration focuses on two things: 1. better process, 2. better results. "Involving people... can be more effective and yield better results:" So good to

<kevin> Scribe: kevin

<Zakim> brentb, you wanted to say about duplicating pawns

Brent: Rather than having them popping up randomly, have them grow up from the bottom

<shawn> scribe: Kevin

Shadi: Just to recap; sequence 6 we have the business arrow with steady growth up. The arrow disappears. We then have people appearing smoothly along the curvature of where the arrow was. The people start increasing with whitespace above and then when 'higher customer satisfaction' is said, the stars appear to indicate satisfaction. They then disappear. The process disappears, and then the people blend into the world and heart.

<Helen> +1 to the breakdown just said

Shadi: This keeps it simple without too much movement. Just enought to make it aestheitcally pleasing and enough to watch.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask about growing from center ? and to say, no, Kevin said people whould be associated with the upcoming world, not the business arrow. So after "development

Shawn: No. Kevin, had said that the people should be more associated with the world and not the business arrow.
... Also, to address the point from Brent about people not popping up randomly, people should be appearing, maybe from the centre.
... Then we do the stars and the people then change into the world.

Shadi: Isn't also quite strong to transition from people from the business perspective through to the world? Not to form an arrow but something that reflects that. So there is still a business component.

<brentb> also +1 to blend it into the globe/world

Shawn: I could go either way. More people is underlying about more business for more organizationsA big point of CSR is the business aspects

<shawn> Kevin: think the more people shoudl be more world like. don't think need to emphasize arrown more

Shadi: Brent, still not clear on whether people grow from the centre or elsewhere?

Brent: I think growing from the centre is great. Not so much popping up all over the screen. Easier for people with motion issues to deal with this growth rather than random popup

Shadi: Any further comments or thoughts?

<yatil> +0 no opinion, I can see both ways

Shadi: I will need to check but the arrow and the axis will most likely fade out. Moving on and off the screen is a strong signal. Fading represents a smooth change of related ideas.
... I imagine a small circle that slowly grows with more and more people into it.

<shawn> [ Shawn got convinced by Shadi's point about more people is also a business benefit so good to be shape of growth. :-) But totally OK with people in a circle. ]

Shadi: Then the stars appear until social responsibility is mentioned, and then the world and heart fades over.

<Lewis> +0

<Kevin> +1 to Shadi's description

<brentb> +1

<Laura> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

<shawn> +1

<yatil> +1

Shadi: Just one more open question
... Do we want to use the suggested alternative to the guage for video 4?
... The starting sequence has the bar growing.
... Do we continue to keep as it is or should we use the guage?

<Laura> +1 to keep it

<Lewis> +1 to keep it

<shawn> https://www.123rf.com/photo_97931220_stock-vector-gauge-meter-icon-on-white-.html

<shawn> Kevin: bar is strong oddity positioned on this page. I can see the new gauge working well. Yet, I apprecaite the invest required to change it.

<shawn> Shadi: forget about the issue of change

Shawn: I think the bar is a lot better than it was before. But it still just this weird column in the middle of the screen. I think the guage is better stylistically. So the question is whether it is poorer at conveying the message.


Lewis: I would go slightly better on the guage

Shadi: If we went with the guage, where would we put the WCAG text?

KrisAnne: What I like about the column is the idea of moving up towards WCAG conformance. Would we be able to convey the same with a guage?
... First thing I think when seeing a guage is my car and something going wrong if the top of the guage is reached.

Shadi: What if WCAG is under the far right, largest bar? And the bar elements change colour as the guage increases.

KrisAnne: Yes, I think that could work

Laura: Had the same association with the car which is a bit confusing and doesn't necessarily show the reaching up to WCAG. Preference is strongly for the bar but ok if the WCAG is labeled well in the gauge.

Eric: I don't think the gauge works as it looks like it is only if you are going full speed do you reach WCAG. Also, the association between conformance evaluation and a gauge doesn't quite work.
... Also, using it in different context (compared with motivation) is confusing.

Shadi: Does the type of gauge make a difference?

Eric: Not to me

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say "WCAG" could be at the bottom, or at the bottom right and to say "WCAG" could be at the bottom, or at the lower right and to say this is measuring

KrisAnne: Still looks like it is in my car

Laura: Any gauge would probably have the same confusion for me.

Shadi: Summarising, no one is really in love with the bar. Several people like the gauge but others feel there are significant problems with the gauge. I would propose as editor to stick with the bar.

<shawn> +1 OK with keeping column at this late stage

+1 happy to stick with bar given the stage

<Laura> +1

<yatil> +1

<Lewis> +1

Shadi: Thank you everyone. Given the changes agreed today, I might look to get some updated visuals just so we can be certain on our approach.

Work for this week

Shawn: We have the survey on ATAG, thanks to those who have already done.
... There is a survey on curricula that goes to next Tuesday. Plan is to discuss next Friday.
... Nothing else planned. There is a lot planned before CSUN both to be published and to be prepped for our face-to-face.
... Thanks all for work on this and surveys.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2020/02/01 10:59:15 $