- Minutes -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

17 Jan 2020




Shadi, Brent, Eric, Estella, Helen, Kevin, Laura, Lewis, Shawn, Howard, KrisAnne, Sharron
Vicki, Daniel, Jenn, Mark


Brent: Hope everyone had a chance to review agenda
... Particularly the audio and visual portions of Script 5. Visual portion has been updated.

Evaluation videos - video 5

Shadi: Reminder of where we are. Over the holidays we had a survey to review the last set of comments.
... We don't have any more iterations on the vidoes. Videos 1, 2 and 3 have some agreed, simple edits and are due to be finalised and finished.
... Video 4 has a few more edits around the growing bar, spaceship and the evaluation report tool help scene to be more computerish.
... Plan is that the assistive technology icons will be received on Monday for review. These have been discussed previously.
... Monday will also see the video end plates available for final review. On Tuesday we should have the final video for video 4.
... Plan is to final review these and agree next Friday.
... Video 5 visualisation script didn't come out as expected so we have an updated script and a final review.
... Video 5 is Involving Users in Web Accessibility. initial scene has crumbling website which is to be refined. The scene with benefits and improvements with spinning icons is also to be addressed. Lack of animation of text and carousel continually turning was not lively or illustrative enough.
... We introduce a section having a blue on blue icons which isn't clear. Similarly the users switching places isn't clear. Finally the two reasources merging into one isn't clear.
... That is just a quick recap of the video as it currently is. Are there any quesitons or comments?
... There haven't been any comments come in so I will go through each section to see if anyone has any thoughts. Just as a reminder the audio has been reviewed, is finalised and cannot be changed.
... Suggestion for first segment is to keep initial section mostly as it currently is. At the moment the animation is a fade but plan is to have a better animation.

Shawn: There was a comment from someone that shutters on the window may have been used elsewhere. Minor point is that 'others' is fine in the text, but probably not in the visuals

Shadi: One comment was on the alignment of the user types on the right. Are there any other thoughts on this starting animation?

<yatil> +1 to keep as is, no need to change apart from alignment


<Brent> +1

<Laura> +1

<Helen> +1

<eoncins> +1

<Lewis> +1

Shadi: moving on to segment 3 regarding approaching accessibility as a checklist. The current visuals have the words and person disappearing and a checklist and sticker apprear. Then the whole site crumbles as the narration comments that the user experience can be missed with this approach.
... Main change is that the accessibility sticker is removed.

<yatil> +1 to remove sticker, leave as is otherwise

<Laura> +1

<Lewis> +1


<Brent> +1 as well

<Helen> +1

<Howard> +1

<eoncins> Not sure but go with +1

estella: How do you relate the checklist with accessibility? There is the checklist on one site and the crumbling website on the other side but no relation.

Laura: Wasn't there the W3C compliance button that people used to add to websites? Could that be used on the website?

<eoncins> +1 to Laura

Laura: This just refers back to the practice that when people had compliance they would use the icon.

<shawn> +1 for checklist replacing the person (than website crumble)!

Shadi: This is more about the website crumbling because accessibility is just approached as a checklist. What Estella is saying is that there is no connection between the list and the site. We could have the person icon remain and then have the crumbling associated with the checklist replacing the person.

KrisAnne: Is there anyway to show some animation in the checklist to show it being addressed and that this isn't enough?

Shadi: But we don't approach in the spoken narrative about the checklist being addressed. It is more about taking a checklist approach is not holistic. Maybe removing the person and replacing the checklist would create a subtle association.
... Previous comments had that if there was too much going on, it was problematic.

Howard: I wonder if maybe the accessibility square collapsing with the website might make it clearer?

Shadi: I think the comment was that suddenly there was this accessibility label there that wasn't clear. So you are suggesting a different approach to how the label is handled.

Howard: I am not sure if that would address the issue, just putting forward options.

<shawn> -1 to logo or label or sticker

Shadi: Do we want to focus on logos or on the website crumbling?

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say person replaced by checklist (shaped like person)! and to say issue of WCAG not enough

Shawn: I don't think we want a logo or label or sticker. I am a firm believer in including people, but I don't want to feed into the narrative that meeting the standards could still result in an inaccessible site.
... I like the idea of the person turning into a checklist, also maybe then changing back to the person. This might be too much animation if the person came back and the site fixed itself.

Shadi: What I am hearing is that we want to emphasise the relationship between the checklist approach and the website crumbling. Showing a bit more strongly that replacing the person with a checklist is the cause.

<shawn> [ the website crumbling is cute, but not important for the text ]

Shadi: Maybe dropping the checklist off with the website might show that focusing on people is important.

Brent: Maybe we have the images in the wrong order. We have the checklist first and the narrative says 'many people approach accesibility as a checklist', we could maybe also include 'accessibility' in the checklist. When it gets to involving people then we could maybe have the site come back and a person be there.

Shadi: We could tie the checklist appearing and replacing the person more to the website crumbling.

Brent: It is quite a tight timescale so I don't know that there is much scope to add much.

<Helen> +q

Shadi: Yes, but there is a brief period where there is nothing on the screen so there may be something that could be done. That could allow for the person to appear for slightly longer and them being replaced with the checklist being closer to the website crumbling animation.

Shawn: And then the checklist is replaced by the person again and the website is fixed? Not sure if this might be too much though.
... It might be subtle if it is just replacing the person with the checklist. It could be nice to bring back the person and complete site.
... The point that we are making is much more about the user experience, I don't know if the cute crumbling website communicates this.

Shadi: The narration does connect 'user experience' with the transition that brings the people back onto the screen. If we bring back the website, it might emphasise this too much.

Shawn: Sure

<Howard> just wanted to say like the collapsing website

Helen: If we are meant to be replacing checklist with people, would it be simpler to have checkbox boxes with hollow people. Change the square checkbox to be people. Trying to think of a different way to do this to show a people checklist instead of just a computer checklist.

Shadi: I wonder if that message would come across.

Helen: Could change it from 'checklist' to 'user feedback'?

Shadi: We do have to be careful not to go too far as we can't change the text.

Howard: I do like the idea of the person morphing to a checklist. That makes it a clearer connection of replacing one with the other. Another thought, could the person icon show something more of them looking at the website? Just as an idea.

Kevin:I think changing the person icon would introduce quite an inconsistency.

Shadi: I think that might be a risk as there was a previous instance where we had some life in the person icon and it didn't come across well.

estella: I think putting the person after the checklist is good. When the user is in front of the computer the website crumbles because only a checklist was used.

Shadi: What we are trying to show is that the crumbled website with a checklist is not good. When there is a person beside the full website this is a good thing. We want to create the association between a broken site with a checklist only approach.

Howard: One more idea, maybe if you had the accessibility box as a rectangle underneath the screen. If the shape on the bottom just broke and then the site crumbles it might suggest that breaking the accessibility cause the site to crumble.
... Accessibility on the bottom could represent the foundation.

Shadi: The idea of the label or sticker seemed to be the problem with others.
... There is quite a bit more to discuss so we might move on from this point but if we have time we can come back to it.
... Next issue was from sequence 4 to 7 in a list.
... This is quite complex wording although that has been agreed and can't be changed.
... The visual will have the three people from the previous scene, they go to the centre, and then around them a wheel of icons representing process stages appears and cycles around them.
... The icons will have the design icons with arrows. There will be no people icons on the circle. Instead of the process circling there will be dots from the people in the centre connecting with the different process phases.

estella: Are you planning to have the text that is currently used there?

Shadi: At the moment there is no text at this stage.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say +1 for people in the middle. not sure if we need the dots. and maybe turning gray to red is too much movement?

Shawn: +1 for the people in the middle. The dots and grey turning to red might be too much.

Shadi: Does the red work for people?

<shawn> +1 to Howard that this pale red is OK, but going from gray to red might be too much like "stop"

Howard: Right now that they are red isn't a problem. Grey to red... not sure. Red sometimes indicates warning. So the changing to red might signal a problem.

Shadi: The reason why there is a change of colour and the dots is that they involvement of people can make for better design and development process.
... The basic idea is that the people make the process better. But yes, red is more associated with problem.

Shawn: Quick brainstorm, so we have have designers, developers, etc randomly wandering around and crashing into each other. Then you have disabled people turn up and order is restored to the process.

Howard: If things are bouncing into one and other that might get visually confusing.

Shadi: Yes, we have had trouble with that in the past. But the point of adding people makes the process more effective. Maybe we could use squiggly arrows and the the people straighten them out.

estella: Why not have the people in the middle at the beginning and then the arrows out to the developers. And then as it develops the people move into the circle to be integrated into the process.

Kevin:+1 quite like the idea of integrating people into the process

Shadi: So as the first benefit is spoken the process cycle remains on the screen, the people disappear (which might change), and then a mortarboard appears when 'learn' is said, and a lightbulb appears when 'understand' is spoken.

Shawn: Conceptually integrating people is good as Kevin commented.
... If you have to replace the inside with other icons then it doesn't quite work as that is the position for designers and developers. Also, don't know that you need the mortarboard and the lightbulb as it is quite a lot of change.

Shadi: There is quite a bit of time which might allow for this.

<shawn> disability icons? AT icons? here

Shadi: There are disability and assistive technology icons to potentially include here as well.
... We could have mortarboard, then disability and AT icons and then the icons. Might be too much though.

Shawn: Might be a bit too much

<eoncins> Agree it might be overwhelming

Helen: I like the keep it simple rule

Shadi: Moving on, as the next benefit is spoken the light bulb disappears and then a motivation gauge appears and goes up.

kevin: I just wanted to check, what is happening with the process wheel?

<shawn> kevin: What about the process wheel?

Shadi: Understanding is that it remains on the screen, it is not scrolling round and should be more visible.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say combine ? ...if text "motivated" not "motivation"

Shawn: If there is text is should be 'motivate' or ???. I do like the disability or at icons. I wonder if we want to use these to cover segment 5 as well. Just wonder if those apply to peoples lives more.

Shadi: One issue is that we might have too many people icons. Aim was to try to show motivation. Is the wording a big issue?

Shawn: No it isn't a big issue

Shadi: So the next benefit has a bar chart with higher bars and arrow pointing up to illustrate efficiency. The smiley then pops up to show that this is a good thing.

<Brent> Is the smiley going to look like an emoji icon or more like the people icons that are currently being used?

Shadi: I don't know, is there a preference?

Brent: Could be either a yellow smillie icon or our people icon.

Shadi: Previous when we gave the people icons expressions that didn't seem to work so it will most likely be closer to the emoji.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to suggest more people - up arrow chart with lots of people underneath it

Shawn: As a suggesion, I want emphasise more people... could have an arrow chart with a few people on the left and then more and more people as the chart goes up.

-1 I think the product effiency is more of the thing and that is more often represented with the profit bar

<Brent> Kevin: Need to be careful not to "over-people" it. More try to convey that the product is working better. Worried about too many people icons on the screen.

<eoncins> Would it be useful to use a battery charge icon?

Shadi: This is something that we can explore a bit. The bar could be pepped up a little bit more.

estella: Another idea might be to use a battery charge icon. This is less about profit and more about charging and energy.

Shadi: Last point in this list. Better products spoken has people icons pop up, followed by stars for satisfaction then a heart to indicate social responsibility.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say along thig idea but much simplier https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-bar-chart-arrow-sales-group-of-people-success-business-profit-growth-145434578.html and

Shawn: The big circle could fad at some point, maybe for sequence 7. It feels slightly less important by this point.

Shadi: There is now a switch in scene to talk about the two available resources. The suggestion is to repeat the process wheel below the first resource title which shows people involved in the process.

estella: Do we want a waterfall process or cycle?

Shadi: Definitely cycle process. Waterfall didn't really work.
... Next scene moves to the next resource. Text box with next resource is there and then we zoom into a white fill and then a compass appears that flips with 'evaluation' appears on the back.

Kevin: I don't understand that at all. I get it -- but why?

Shawn: Agree, not sure why.

Shadi: Ok, so compass isn't necessarily working.

Brent: Is the compass representing guiding somebody - that is the typical represenatation.

Shawn: Do we have some concept for 'evaluate' in any of the other videos?

Shadi: Often used the magnifcation glass.

Shawn: Why not just have a computer with a magnification glass? What would then tie it in with the other vidoes.
... And I don't like the white fill zoom into the screen.
... My vote is leave the text and then magnification glass to tie in.

<Kevin> +1

<yatil> +1 to testing in process

Shadi: It says evaluation but the process doesn't actually include an evalutation icon. Would it make sense to add one?

<krisannekinney> +1 to testing process

Shawn: Don't feel strongly either way

<Kevin> +1 to testing icon as long as it doesn't clutter too much

<eoncins> +1 to testing process

<Laura> +1

krisannekinney: A lot of people don't test as much as they should so it is a good thing to add in

Shadi: If we have cycle process in the previous scene then when we move on to the next resource, Involving Users in Evaluating, maybe the icon from the process could be zoomed in and people could be added.

Shawn: Or the icon zooms out and the process wheel stays. That might be enough. You could have people appear but that might not be needed.
... We need less animation when there is text on the screen as people will be processing that.

Shadi: Finally, the last scene has the two resource names appear, merge together and then a person with a website with checkmark icons on the screen. This hasn't changed.

Shawn: I have a slight hesitation with the last scene, does it communicate technical requirement rather than users. Don't feel strongly, just a thought.
... Having the computer in the same position as in the earlier scene.

Shadi: Thank you everyone for your feedback. There are a few question marks still but we do have a number of ideas to explore. I will be working with the production company on the script which will be out for review, hopefully, early next week. Then we can wrap up the animations and the whole project.

Brent: Thanks for going through the difficult challenge of describing visuals!

Work for this week

Brent: There will probably not be a survey but there is a bit of work to be reviewed.

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Work_for_this_Week includes "Upcoming work:" section so you know what's coming :-)

Brent: The assistive technology icons and end-plate should be available on Monday for review during the week and for discussion next Friday.
... The Friday discussion can move more quickly if they are reviewed early.

Shawn: If it would be useful to have a survey just to share notes to share ideas before the meeting we can do that?

Brent: I am fine with a survey to help people collate thoughts and notes. Would that help you Shadi?

Shadi: Absolutely

Brent: Thanks Shawn. Shadi, when you get the resources, can you just pop them into the survey?

Shadi: Icons will probably be on the wiki and I will add that to a survey

Brent: One other thing that is coming up, the roles and responsibilities matrix group have been working on this for the last year. They are close to having a first draft within the next month. We will hopefully have a working draft of some form. This will form part of their presentation at CSUN. We want to get EOWG opinion and help in reviewing it prior to CSUN.

<shawn> shawn will add that to "upcoming work"

<shawn> ARRM Project - Accessibility Roles and Responsibilities Mapping

<Sharron> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2020/01/18 16:13:42 $