<Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
Jeanne: We are a very exciting
part, we are finally starting to write content. Have been
working on process. We identified during our research was the
need for a more user-centric language in the Guidelines.
... my experience is that we start with user need and then
launch right into writing guidelines. We think it may be more
effective to start with the user need and then determine a test
that would verify that the need is met. Ince you ahve the test,
write an extended description to explain it.
<shawn> Template for Silver content https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcCyt9PJKUIjj341qc_ERiQrwoMUCWMP-exGXZgkzEk/edit
<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZbmftNlX4mQI5HNBnzrKKvZ_EslGUy5mYKoBDaLijWg/edit
Jeanne: Finally after all that,
arrive at the language for the Guideline. At AccessU we built a
template for that process. Usability participants who were not
there reviewed and suggested improvements
... the Template is now open for public comment. The idea is to
validate that we are meeting user needs at every step of teh
process. It has become quite complex and needs more work. Today
I would like to walk us through one of the WCAG Guidelines and
evaluate how this process might work.
<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qs4EkOLTs2VWZ6RHiLJquIAEp4tlUqeZ0kp7ZE7j2Lk/edit#gid=0
Jeanne: A spreadsheet was
developed by another TF participant that I thinks makes the
process more clear. Still needs work. It is exciting but I have
a bit of concern that we have added so much complexity it may
slow down development.
... I am hoping that doing this ananlysis up front will
shortcut the long evaluation process within the WG as the SCs
are created. Suggestion was to run a discussion Google doc at
the time the process is being implemented so that as issues are
raised and addressed it is clearly resolved and does not have
to be revisitied.
... a reason to do this is to facilitate participation around
the world. For those who can't attend Silver calls, smaller
groups can work locally and create synchronzed process.
Extensive document will do that we hope.
Jenn: Looks good, thanks for this weok. I prefer the coument over the spreadsheet but appreciate the need for both.
Shawn: Thanks for opening for discussion. As people have time to look I am sure there will be more thoughts.
Jeanne: I invite EO - you all are the experts at writing clearly - to participate in this work.
Shawn: Some people have had trouble follwing the AGWG work in GitHUb etc. I encourage this other method of engagement be tested and see if this process may work better for people like those involved in the LVTF and COGA
Jeanne: Yes that was an incentive and in fact, I was frustrated as well so I can imagine how extreemenly difficult it may have been for others.
Daniel: I think the spreadsheet by providing the ability to sort and filter is prefereable to me but undertand the document is good to have a narrative and more formal presentaiton. Good to have both.
Shawn: Right. Things like lists with columns of data where people might want to sort, good in a spreadsheet. When details on one guideline, then probably good in a doc.
<shawn> Sharron: Encourage Jeanne when she wants discussion, then bring to planning group to work it in EOWG workplan
Daniel: Thanks to everyone for
your review and useful comments. It is great to report our
response to the comments - we now have a multipage resource. We
have a new staff member to help and looking forward to working
as a team.
... The discussion at teh F2F has led to this palnning and
managing with 4 topics as you can see
<shawn> Unit 5: Applying and managing accessibility https://w3c.github.io/wai-curricula/curricula/1-5/
<shawn> survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/Curricula_unit_5_review/results
<shawn> topics for discussion - https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/unit_5_review
Daniel: As we have restructured the sections we have turned it into a multi-page resource. We have included ections suggested by our research and shaped by your feedback. Can we discuss any points that you feel were not addressed by the current restructure.
Shawn: Even if you did not complete the survey or if you have additional comments, please feel free to speak up at this time.
Shadi: Can you summarize the kinds of comments you got from the survey?
<shawn> +1 for the structure overall
Daniel: Seemed like people were more or less happy with the structure. Shawn said the suggested teaching materials might not be properly structured, might be good to discuss now.
Shawn: It was fairly minor. "Suggested Teaching materials" seemed unclear - is it background, or what will be there? Do we not expect people to go through and teach each one of those or use as reference or resources to pull stuff from to add to their teaching.
Daniel: Yes, it would be intended to be used as reference materials. Experienced teachers may have their own materials and this may be more useful for those who do not.
KrisAnne: When I reviewed yesterday, the order in which this is presented did not seem quite right. For example, you must have the policy in place before you plan, manage a program.
<Laura> +1 to Krisanne comments about policy. I also added this in my survey response also.
Daniel: I thought the other way around since you must plan to decide you need polcy and then how to develop it
<Estella> Agree with KrisAnne. It would be great to have a some kind of checklist or step by step to guide people on how to apply or manage accessibility
KrisAnne: I feel like it is going
to be an iterative process. Commit to a general policy first
and as you get going you will become more granular.
... for example at ETS, it evolved over time, but there must be
an initiaal trigger.
Daniel: Yes I see what you are saying.
<shawn> s/Agree with Kris./Agree with KrisAnne.
KrisAnne: So you may want to reverse the order of applying and managing.
Shadi: There are two topics open, Daniel, how do you want to manage?
Daniel: Let's look at structure.
<shawn> maybe "Suggested Teaching Materials" -> "Suggested Teaching Resources"
<shawn> maybe "Suggested Teaching Materials" -> "Suggested Resources"
Shadi: The things we link to in the teaching materials section are the basis from which to create the courses and develp the contnet. Shawn, coming back to your question about the name of the section, what is the confusion?
Shawn: If you say Suggested Teaching Materials I think I will go to this place and teach this content as opposed to using these as references to build my own course.
<Estella> for us is recommended bibliography
Shadi: How do you distinguish and refer to something like text books that you use to make a course?
Shawn: If this is to be used as a text book, then yes it is the correct title - is that the intent?
Howard: I gree with Shawn, when you say materials it seems this is what you teach but using Suggested kind of addresses that. I am not sure how to modify Teaching Resources to be a bit less defintitive.
<Estella> Teaching materials for us are resources which are articles from indexed journals or technical specification or guidelines
<shawn> Suggested Teacher Resources
<shawn> [ maybe the issuse is "Teaching" vs "Teacher" ]
Shadi: If anyone feels this needs further clarifiaction beyond modifying the wording of the heading, please speak up, do we need a sentence to explain?
<shawn> Suggested Instructor Resources
<Howard> I like "teaching" vs. "teacher"
Shawn: Maybe Instructor Materials or Resources.
Daniel: For me, resources or materials are the same.
Laura: Reinforce KrisAnne's point about policy. I feel strongly that we must emphasize the fact that policy will allow the rest of the organization to dothe work.
Shadi: Are we having a difficult time since we made assumptions to pull oout these three topics and know that they could be reordered but we are trying to give people flexibility to do them as needed by the org. How to make that clear.
<shawn> scribe: Lewis
<shawn> scribe: Howard
Shadi: Can we agree that this
order is not mandatory
... and do people agree with the points/topics we've pulled
out?
Estella: would suggest a checklist for managing accessibility.
In order to guide each individual/role in the organization.
Daniel: that might be putting in
too much detail - if added a checklist for each role.
... Need to strike balance between those who know a lot about
accessibility and those who are new to the topic.
Shawn: Checked list is in linked resource: under suggested teaching materials.
e.g. "doing an initial analysis" or link to "planning and managing". Do people know to follow those links is the question.
<Estella> https://www.w3.org/WAI/planning-and-managing/
Estella: thinks resource "planning and managing web accessibility" does provide guidance in that area.
Shawn: how do we make it clearer that the linked resources provides content for that bullet? Possibly add [resource: ...] or make bold or something?
<shawn> Howard: For first resource, Planning & Managing, thought the links in brackets worked well. Didn't think they were as present in others sections.
<shawn> ... some didn't seem to have as many links (maybe just the last ones).
<shawn> ... need more links to give people guidance for where to do.
<shawn> ... Think people looking at 2 differenent ways. 1. training as a company. 2. Curriculum in a resource.
<shawn> ... for curriculum, order not as important.
<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to ask if relationship between topic and teaching materials is sufficient
Shadi: for this particular topic
there is a one to one mapping to which all these activities are
based.
... One extreme: could put in a sentence "teach this resource
to the students" as you go through this topic.
... other extreme - repeat that resource content here.
... the latter would be creating a course, not a
curriculum.
<shawn> of course, do not repeat the contents of the resource!
Shadi: Do have people have advice for how to link resources to the teaching topics?
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to asy keep links there. note that one resource might appply to multiple bullets
Shawn: Definitely do not repeat
resources.
... In some cases, one resource applies to multiple bullet
points.
... Other places have different resources for each bullet
points. In those cases, have links to each resource in each
bullet point.
... Maybe put a specific statement to instruct teacher to go to
the resource and pull out the information most relevant for
your audience.
... consider when one resource covers most or each item in the
bullet points the link to the resource be provided at the top
after to "suggested teaching activities"
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to day ok if together, but then need in heading
Daniel: Currently "accessibility
policies" and "statement on accessibility" are together. Should
they be separate?
... comments on survey that students create their own
accessibility tree.
... Wasn't really sure what they meant - if they liked the
activity of going through this resource looking at existing
tree or if they should create their own.
<Estella> I think this activity is really relevant and a decision tree should be provided
Daniel: 2 resources for this
topic: role based decision tree used to see who has primary
responsibility.
... Other one is ARRM
... This one explains which roles and responsibilities there
are, which are the main tasks, etc.
<dmontalv1> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Role_definition_document
Shadi: this is another example where although the links are there it's not clear enough what the primary resource should be.
<dmontalv1> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Role-Based_Decision_Tree
Shawn: Appeciate feedback on this issue but don't need to ask students to create this tree. (It has taken "experts" lots of thought and several iterations to develop a tree!)Maybe a homework to use
<Estella> +1 Shawn
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say onstead of "students to create their own responsibility tree as homework", "students to use the provided responsibility tree" for an accessibility issue
the accessibility/role tree but not to have students create one.
Daniel: Do we need "Accessibility
in an on-going project" as another topic?
... Or should it be included in the 3 topics above?
... What about naming of topic?
<shadi> +1 to staying with web
Daniel: Shawn in survey: "Accessibility in an on-going project" maybe something like ->"Addressing Accessibility in an Existing Product"
<shawn> [ Shawn was wanting to change "on-going" to "existing" (not other wording :-]
scribe: Agrees with taking out word "ongoing" because it could be an existing project.
KrisAnne: wondered if this was just about web accessibility or was this larger in scope. I.e. digital accessibility.
Shadi: Propose we continue to
focus on "Web" accessibility.
... Believe this also includes mobile and other products.
... should avoid going too broad - into "products" or "all
digital content". Focus should be Web.
... Is this being too limiting?
<Estella> When do you mean mobile apps, do you include all types of mobile apps (native mobile and system dependent apps (IOs or Android)?
<shawn> scribe: Lewis
Daniel: all agree should be the web accessibility scope.
Shadi: up to 80% of apps are
hybrid.
... definition of web is fluid and includes more than people
think it is. Some material may be used to teach software
development, but out of scope
Estella: work with people who work on apps. Accessibility apps more at the system level
<dmontalv1> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula
Estella: sometimes you work with teams. Work with accessibility requires teamwork.
[Estella, Are you commenting on https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Role_definition_document ? If so, we should get your comment to the editors of that resource :-)]
Daniel: curriculum focusing mostly on the introductory module. Not breaking it down into differently roles. Will break it down in later modules.
Laura: great resource
Shadi: next steps is another pass. Getting into detailed wording. We're getting a more stable overall structure. Bring back to the group as soon as possible for a more detailed review.
Shawn:Share what you've done... or seen.
[crickets]
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Outreach#GAAD_2019_tweets
Shawn: Did anyone have time to retweet the GAAD tweets?
<shawn> Chairs will propose next campaign. https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Outreach#Campaigns
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Work_for_this_week
Shawn:remember to check Work for this Week -- there are minor updates to the intro resource for your review.
... Upcoming: there will be more curriculum work to
review in the next couple of weeks. Thorough review of all 5 units, so please plan enough time in your schedule for that -- later in June maybe into early July.
Shadi: The European Accessibility Act in effect now! This will cover banks, airlines, etc. Using the same European standard. WCAG
<Laura> great news!
Shadi: European countries have 2 years to include this into their countries laws. In 3 years the businesses have to implement.