Cognitive Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

23 May 2019


AbiJ, janina, stevelee, Jennie, LisaSeemanKest


<LisaSeemanKest> regrets; David Fazio , Rochford, John , EA

<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: Jennie

actions and updates: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage

<LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage

Lisa: if items need a lot of discussion in this area, we can add it to the agenda.

<stevelee> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aJE2C0FzzzXgydEp0MNGSdDDvUTTsANViUVvciFK36k/edit

Lisa: I will check the one on complex info.
... content usable - did people get to review it?
... content usable - please review.
... let's address this next week.
... any more comments on issues, processing and tools?
... I will move this to pending.
... we were also to review the user needs structure document. We will get to that next on the agenda.
... I have finished my review of the patterns.
... I will follow up with Rachael offline since she is not on this call.
... I will table the conversation with John R and John K
... Silver prototype

Jennie: I have no updates.

Lisa: collecting the terms.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1poEoQjuWdAfWM3aOGPCwJRx7EvBsAtQ_99sGyS9Jlgc/edit#heading=h.ijz4vin0z9c1

Lisa: collect all terms, not even definitions. Including multiple terms that mean the same thing. Do not worry about organizing them.

awcag 2.2 updates

Lisa: Alastair has 2 moving forward, and 2 are moving forward.

Justine: I'm involved in the accessibility guidelines working group, but not working on specific ones.

<stevelee> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Success_Criteria_Groups

Lisa: Jennie - reach out to Alastair and check in
... after getting the group together, be sure to invite Alastair.

Abi: there has been some email discussion already. There are some points we may want to review in more detail.
... some discussion is around Silver.

Lisa: let's put this as a call for next week.

<stevelee> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/WCAG_2.2_Success_Criteria_Groups

Steve: I have started a wiki page to introduce the information.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16OA95LpFAcHWb5Y_4wS65q64gEEWf1AYNfmt2_Pjd6A/edit#heading=h.6oq0pzpbj3fc

Lisa: this document will be helpful for John R's one.

Jennie: I believe David F has the other one.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1poEoQjuWdAfWM3aOGPCwJRx7EvBsAtQ_99sGyS9Jlgc/edit#heading=h.ijz4vin0z9c1

Steve: the link in the wiki has the list of who is the shepherd/shepherdess for each one.
... I would like to be on all of them.
... on Tuesday's call there was only discussion about John R and Rachael's.

Approaches to user needs

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NAvyzUb4cG9kp1Ao5o2UJ5Ar4cOfRTyrxBjxYzABUb4/edit#heading=h.ox862rlujm46

Lisa: Janina is wanting us to explain more about the user needs.
... this is the kind of structure we wanted, and Janina has provided some feedback.

Janina: the example was about the purpose of the page. This may be more difficult to distinguish the specific COGA related issues, but the structure looks good.
... we want to make clear what is unique for someone with cognitive and learning disabilities.
... knowing what the purpose is of a page is easily anybody's issue.
... this is similar to the problems I discussed in Southampton.
... the template I have no complaints with.

Lisa: I'm adding "whereas many people..." and "

"people with learning disabilities..."

Lisa: we have to make sure that this is present.

Janina: the ... must be captured somewhere, and this may not be the best place to do so.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16OA95LpFAcHWb5Y_4wS65q64gEEWf1AYNfmt2_Pjd6A/edit#heading=h.6oq0pzpbj3fc

Lisa: there was a rewrite for 3.1 which says "as a user with ... I can correctly...and then an example" - would this work?

Janina: I want a story about what you mean by memory issues.
... going to a solution does not distinguish them.
... all of us forget things - so what is different here?
... tell that story.

Lisa: in that document they had example issues.

Janina: that's common to anybody. That's why Lastpass, for example, exists.
... I don't think the structure is the problem.

Jennie: I propose a small stakeholder group to get together to refine some of the language.

Abi: I use this in trainings I do - while others may experience the issue occasionally, it is a barrier for others.

Lisa: if we say that lots of people experience issues with working memory when they are tired, however for this group...but doing this in a non repetitive way may be a challenge.

Abi: I get a distracted on what is on the browser, then forget what I was meant to be doing. Those types of anecdotes may be helpful.

Lisa: what about a staged approach. Since the structure is fine
... let's take the user stories that are going into WCAG first, into the new structure, then when we add some of these quote in...so once you have read it once, you don't have to read it again and again.

Janina: I agree that being repetitive is not good. The structure is meant to tie together multiple things.
... the user stories are part of some individual document that is separately published that talks about different people. Dyscalculia is a good one, because it is easy to explain.
... it is important to tell them.
... explaining the exacerbation is important, and that is what makes it hard to do.

Lisa: we want to pull all these user stories and examples in a central repository, and reference them.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NAvyzUb4cG9kp1Ao5o2UJ5Ar4cOfRTyrxBjxYzABUb4/edit#

Janina: no this is not the place to tell the stories. This needs to be a cross referencing sort of document.

Group reviewed the document.\

Steve: the personas make something real, and can be used without the user stories.

Janina: if there is a good story in the personas, I am not sure you need the user stories.
... do we have one of the personas?

Lisa: yes

Jennie: I would like to propose Janina holds a call to workshop one with a few people, and then presents it at a future meeting

Lisa: could we bring in someone like Michael since he is a W3C person.

Janina: I think this is a bit early in the process.
... if the document I am asking for is something already in another document, then please send me the link.
... and then yes, I would be fine with reviewing with a small group.

Lisa: we will send Janina the content usable document.

Janina: is that where personas are detailed?
... I want the place with the actual stories.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://w3c.github.io/coga/persona/index.html

Lisa: maybe what you want us to do is work on this document.
... Janina will review that one.
... there is also the user needs. And then maybe we have a small group that works on this a bit.

Janina: I'm not worried as much about the layout, but work on the story.

Lisa: ok.
... Janina will review, see what is needed.

Janina: I will not be at the meeting next week

Lisa: next week we will work on WCAG issues. Then we can do this in 2 weeks.

<LisaSeemanKest> take up item 6

<LisaSeemanKest> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/review-cfc/captcha/index.html

Janina: what I need to know is what is missing from this draft.

Steve: is this supposed to be about approaches

Janina: yes
... cognitive is mentioned more often than screen reader

Lisa: logic puzzles section

Janina: a lot of that is your comments from 18 months ago

Jennie: has there been consideration about central auditory processing disorder, and those with multiple challenges like this plus dyslexia

Janina: I would appreciate help in this area.
... some suggested content would be helpful.

Lisa: when do you need this by?

Janina: end of June
... we are likely going to second public review.
... this has helped get a lot of traction.
... we are going to a second wide review. A third will be considered.

Jennie: I can review and see if I can share a sentence or 2 to consider.

Lisa: anyone else want to review and provide feedback?
... I will put Jennie down, and put myself in brackets.

Janina: for my task, I will respond on the list.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: AbiJ janina stevelee Jennie LisaSeemanKest
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Found Date: 23 May 2019
People with action items: 

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