The meeting began with happy new year wishes all around and an introduction of COGA TF staff contact Steve Lee to EOWG contributors. Next Shawn reviewed the current proposal for prioritization of translation of WAI resources. Discussion included questions about hierarchy of current considates for translation and about Policies. Overall the group seems satisfied with the current priorities DRAFT list with a suggestion to make more clear that this is not a comprehensive list of intended resources for translation but only the primary and secondary priorities. Also mentioned was the close collaboration with Internationalization and how W3C intends to adopt some of the UI and methodology that Shawn has implemented for WAI. Next was a discussion about whether to archive the page "How to Change Text Size or Colors." Discussion led to the conclusion that the page should be updated and maintained. Robert will do that. Then a discussion of how to link to it led to suggestions that will be compiled in GitHub. Steve Lee then provided background on COGA work and asked for EO input on making the resources findable and usable for more of the general public. This was an introuction of the idea and more detail will be provided next week. A final date and location is set for the EOWG face to face meeting at CSUN. EO contributors will please add availability and ideas for topics to the wiki page. Please check in with work for this week as well. Thanks all for your valuable contributions, and happy new year!
<scribe> Scribe: Sharron
Shadi: first topic should be to wish us all a great new year!
Steve: Met many at F2f, glad to be here, etc
Steve: Is new WAI staff, based in UK
Shawn: Hoping everyone had a
chance to see this previously, will share screen.
... please make note of background info'
... on a translated page - if the pages in main are also
available in translation, the title nav link will be
translated in the menu. If not, the title will appear in
English.
... there is an impact on the priorities to take into
consideration.
... we spoke a few weeks ago about some high priority items for the beta version. For those who missed that discussion, we just wanted to reiterate and make sure everyone understands where we are. Any questions?
... when you have reviewed or if you looked in advance, please indicate so in IRC. Open then for any comments
or ideas about different priorities... or +1 if this looks
good
<Laura> +1
<Lewis> +1
Robert: I did not see Policies in the list. I understand that we can't eat the whole buffet at one sitting. So I want to be sure that this is the highest priority but that other things like Policies (that I worked on earlier this year) weren't missed.
<shawn> Others
<shawn> There are many more WAI resources available for translation. The complete list of WAI resources is available in the WAI Site Map.
Shawn: OK please be sure first of all that the message (ie: that there is much more to come) is clear and secondly I was not sure that the bulk of the content -the wrapper text - did not have high priority for translation.
Shawn: In the Policies, the most important part is the law itself rather than the pointer text that we publish. Also not sure what are the technical parts of translating Policies that might need to be overcome.
Eric: Overall, this is a good list IMO. One thing not clear is the ranking. Is everything on this list of equal priority? How do people know where to start. Consideration of the Tutorials in the listing -- they're not ready yet since have open issues.\. Finally, yes there are technical challenges to translating the Policies.
Robert: Did not mean to suggest that Policies page should be translated.
Shawn: Thanks for the good input. GitHub is open if further issues occur to you.
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-website/issues/122
Shawn: We have gotten comments, will give a minute to read,
Shawn: Robert what is your perspective on updating and maintaining this page?
<shawn> new revision: https://www.w3.org/WAI/meta/customize/
Robert: The top part of the
content has been edited to how to do it, the browser
manufacturer's own techniques. So in some cases it is specific to browsers that are older. So rather than try to maintain specific info for each browser, provide more general info with tables and screen shots and all.
... browser and version specific instructions are too hard to keep current. May be better to give general info about where to find intructions within the various browser accessiiblity or user guidance pages.
... we don't have a ton of work if we remove some of the
browser/version specific advice and provide soemthing more
general.
Shawn: So the next question is do you, Robert, want to be the one to do that?
Robert: Sure, it will be a good way to re-enter real EO contributions for the new year, I will do it.
Eric: Can we use the page and be more general, less WAI specifc. Instead of 'How to customize the WAI pages' should it not be 'How to Make your web experience more accessible' So keep the basic content but change the title.
<shawn> there is also this page (that is out of date) Better Web Browsing: Tips for Customizing Your Computer (https://www.w3.org/WAI/users/browsing)
Shawn: Remember that one of the primary motivations was to discourage the understanding that many had that a widget is needed to change text size. We already have a page to say making your experience more accessible. So let's consider that they have different purposes, and do we want 2 separate pages...
Shadi: I would like to get back
to that resource as well. We want to produce more high quality
videos with the WAI-Guide project and perhaps provide that kind
of guidance to encourage more direct user support.
... I think we do need two pages. The more general one is a
broader look at AT. I like Robert's approach and may be able to
provide links to more detail.
... at the time we had very different browser behaviors. We
should try to see if we can keep this page separate and use it
to provide a good example about how to teach users about good
ways to browse web sites on their own.
Shawn: Have an editor and hearing only support for keeping the page, do I hear any concerns?
Eric: No strong concern about that but I think we should consider integrating into Better Web Browsing in a more general way at some point.
Shawn: So then the question is
where do we link to it?
... not many people look at it. There are eight links into it
and seven were from a major retailers design group. Others
point to it as an example. While users may not need it as much on our site, it does communicate an important thing to
designers and developers.
... if we leave it between the other guidance on the right, it could cause more wrapping and clutter.
... could make it an icon or other options.
... open it up to other considerations or thoughts about where we might want to locate a link to it
Robert: Having you talk through the challenge (like with the translations) is helpful but nothing fully baked to present at this time.
Shawn: In github there are some brainstorms, any others are welcome now or on github
Eric: I think in the top right section somewhere probably near the header is where I would look for it.
Laura: I agree, I think it has to stay somewhere up in the header. I understand the competing priorities but if we keep it, we have to make it easily findable.
Robert: What if we make an icon that looks like those 'change text size' icons but links to the page. Is that snarky or a terrible idea?
Norah: What about keeping it with 'Skip' but move them both to the left?
<rjolly> +1 to Norah's idea
Shawn: Thanks for those suggestions, any reactions?
Eric: I have seen in the wild an icon that looks like the change text size icon but that links instead to a page, might be a good idea. I have some concerns about on the left using too much space around the logo and making it too cluttered over there.
<Laura> -1 to moving it to the left
<Norah> +1 to icon
Shawn: Moving to the left would improve visibility but not help the wrapping issue - might even make it worse. Any other thoughts about using an icon rather than text?
<rjolly> I'm in favor of trying an icon without a visible label and possibly testing it out in a limited way.
Lewis: I don't particulrly like icons in the headers because they so often require tooltips or more explanation.
<rjolly> I also appreciate Lewis' concern about icons. This is a tricky thing we're trying to do.
<yatil> -1/3 to moving it to the left, -3/8 to only an icon
Laura: I agree with Lewis. Is the icon only for text size and color or is it a broader accessibility icon. Could cause confusion.
Shawn: If anyone sees examples such as Eric mentioned where icon goes to different page, please share. Raising the Floor is an opposite example.
<shawn> https://raisingthefloor.org/ - display preference opens widget
Shadi: Have we considered an icon for translations?
Shawn: We have one for all translations - do you mean not having a text lable for it?
Shadi: Yes or maybe make it a widget that opens
Shawn: for the list of all
languages or the link to all translations
... we considered *not* listing all the languages and decided it was needed.
Shadi: Yes but since we are bringing back the color/size option, we may need to revisit.
Shawn: Given the strong reasons for listing the languages, we don't plan to revisit it.
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Translations#Always_visible_vs._select links to i18n perspective on it
Laura: I like the way Raising the Floor approaches it. It backs up what Shadi just said, it has display preferences right at the top and seems cleaner.
Shawn: Great, thanks for the input, please put any further comments in GitHub.
Shawn: Just a bit of background for today, orientation to the topic. Detail next week along with some questions for EO input.
... Cognitive and learning Disabilities Task Force. Steve Lee is the staff contact and has taken on the work with the TF is often referred to by the acronym COGA. They submitted many SCs, most of which were not included in WCAG 2.1 (same is true for Low Vison & Mobile as well). COGAs work is evolving, doing gap analysis, provide guidance that goes beyond what is in WCAG, and have notes and drafts that are presented as technical reports.
Shawn: Most of the content is not technical specs but more usability, human centered design. A thought is that presenting these within the WAI website can improve their findability and usability.
... there are good seeds of information that currently exist as TR notes, and GitHub issues. EO may be able to help the TF move into a more usable space.
... Steve has made an early mockup of ideas for how info may be able to be presented. Recall that we have a look at Older Users, where is the overlap for WCAG, general issues. Can model on that - an intro page with some sub-topics that lead into specific resources within WAI that may be useful. So we are beginning to think aobut how to integrate and organize the COGA work.
Steve: Thanks Shawn, great intro.
Shawn: We are looking at helping COGA think about how the info that they have developed can have greater impact and reach more people.
... any questions?
... By next week we will try to provide a framework for EO
contributors to consider the work and help them present more effectively in WAI pages.
Sharron: Are you looking for people to actively participate with COGA?
Steve: Not that so much as liaise with the group. We are alsways seeking more participation from people who have subject matter expertise, but in regards to EO we are looking for the more of the outreach, framing the issues in a way that is more easily consumable by the general public.
Shadi: There will be resources that are part of the WAI website such as mobile and older people...areas of special focus. So the one of the questions is how COGA relates to these kind of specialized topics. It may be we need to consider a reflection or cross reference to existing WAI resources. So how do COGA resources link to and reference some the planning and managing resources, tutorials, etc
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_March_2019
Shawn: It is a go - please add availability, ideas for topics, and any other relevant detail. any questions?
<Laura> I put in a request for travel yesterday. Not sure if I'll get approved.
[participants share hopes for accessibility in 2019]
Shawn: I am excited about 2019 for EO.Hoping we get to do more videos (people love them), more translations, and again for those who may not know. W3C overall is re-doing how the whole org does translations and we are working with them.
Eric: My dream for this year is to get more stuff done, more articles published, totally looking forward to the face to face meetings
Shawn: A bit of homework we can start on now and will post more soon. Thanks y'all!