JSON-LD Working Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2020-02-14

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Rob Sanderson, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Gregg Kellogg, Ivan Herman, Tim Cole, Jeff Mixter, Harold Solbrig, David I. Lehn

Regrets: Ruben Taelman

Guests:

Chair: Benjamin Young, Rob Sanderson

Scribe(s): Pierre-Antoine Champin, Rob Sanderson

Content:

1. Approve minutes

Proposed resolution: Approve Minutes of previous call: https://www.w3.org/2018/json-ld-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2020/2020-02-07-json-ld (Rob Sanderson)

Rob Sanderson: +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

Gregg Kellogg: +0

Ivan Herman: +1

Resolution #1: Approve Minutes of previous call: https://www.w3.org/2018/json-ld-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2020/2020-02-07-json-ld

2. Process

Rob Sanderson: now that we are not talking about normative details,

Proposed resolution: Automatically approve call minutes from now on 1 week after the call, as the calls are not focused on normative content (Rob Sanderson)

Rob Sanderson: +1

Rob Sanderson: may be we don’t need a formal approval of the minutes of the previous week

Tim Cole: +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Resolution #2: Automatically approve call minutes from now on 1 week after the call, as the calls are not focused on normative content

3. Issues

3.1. Integrity feature disposal

Rob Sanderson: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-syntax/issues/108

Rob Sanderson: from someone on the mailing list working on Ethereum
… interested in SRI
… gkellogg pointed out that we have deferred this,
… but that the @import mechanism offers an extension point.

Gregg Kellogg: did he raised a different issue, which I referenced in 108?

Rob Sanderson: this was an email on the list.
… does anyone feel differently, or should we keep it deferred?

Ivan Herman: that’s the only thing that we can do now.

Proposed resolution: Continue to defer work on context metadata (syntax #108) (Rob Sanderson)

Rob Sanderson: +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

Tim Cole: +1

Jeff Mixter: +1

Harold Solbrig: +1

Resolution #3: Continue to defer work on context metadata (syntax #108)

3.2. @prefix usage

Rob Sanderson: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-syntax/issues/329

Harold Solbrig: I have a number of prefixes ending with underscore,
… rather than hash or slash (so not considered as prefix by default);
… it would be nice to be able to set @prefix=true globally,
… instead of specifying per term.

Rob Sanderson: would that apply to all terms in the context?

Gregg Kellogg: this would apply to all terms except those explicitly marked with @prefix=false
… and this would be meant to be used in subcontexts.

Harold Solbrig: the ramifications are big…

Gregg Kellogg: this is actually what 1.0 was doing initially;
… there was an errata to prevent just any IRI to be used as a prefix

Gregg Kellogg: See errata mail

Gregg Kellogg: See JSON-LD 1.0 errata

Harold Solbrig: let me time to ponder on it a little more

Rob Sanderson: gkellogg any more issues we should discuss?

3.3. Issue 265 Confusing algorithm handling @context values

Pierre-Antoine Champin: See https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/265

Gregg Kellogg: a few are still open.
… kasei needs to check if the wording satisfies him.
… For 265 the PR has been merged, the text is up-to-date.

4. CR2 Timing

Rob Sanderson: assuming that the remaining issues can be closed today,
… when can we publish CR2?

Ivan Herman: we have to generate an editor’s draft, and submit it to Ralph.

Gregg Kellogg: unless something comes up, we are ready for this.
… The only pending issue is 265, we are waiting for him to agree to close the issue.
… We decided to remove the section “changes since CR”, as this is a new CR.

Ivan Herman: but we need something in the Changes section, explaining what lead us to make a new request.
… Explain what substantial change made us do it.

Gregg Kellogg: The substantial change was the definition of the JSON datatype.
… But before that, all the small changes that we have been tracking were not substantial.

Ivan Herman: those can be summarized, but the substantial one must be clearly described.

Gregg Kellogg: ok, I have to recreate the change section.

Ivan Herman: which documents are we republishing?

Gregg Kellogg: the datatype definition is in the syntax document.
… This impacted he API document, from which we removed bits about canonicalization,
… and referred to the Syntax doc itself.

Ivan Herman: Ok, what about the Framing document. Any substantial change?

Gregg Kellogg: (listing the changes)
… The algorithms were updated along the lines of what we did in the API document.

Ivan Herman: that’s borderline; we must be very clear about the reason of the change

Gregg Kellogg: we can do it
… I’ll update the Syntax and API document, explaining that.

Pierre-Antoine Champin: if I remember correctly, we deferred a proposal about the algorithm. And after the datatype came up, we went to CR, so that should be listed as substantial?

Gregg Kellogg: those changes didn’t change the behaviour
… so I would not consider them as substantial.

Rob Sanderson: assuming kasei can close his pending issues today,
… when do you (gkellogg) think we could be ready?

Gregg Kellogg: some PR will need reviewing by pchampin,
… I would say tuesday or wednesday

Ivan Herman: wednesday would be ideal for me

Gregg Kellogg: can we use echidna now?

Ivan Herman: (confusing answer)
… need to remove editorial=true to republish Syntax and API, then put it back

5. Best Practices

5.1. Typing gotchas

Rob Sanderson: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-bp/issues/14

Rob Sanderson: @type sometimes does not behave as anticipated, even by bigbluehat
… how can we describe it in the BP document, so that people understand the intent of @type
… The process proposed last week was to go through issues, discuss what we want to say,
… and have someone write it properly.

Pierre-Antoine Champin: Type coercion is only for strings. Native types do not need coercion, and are hence insensitive to this

Rob Sanderson: would the BP entry be about type coercion, or about the interaction thereof with native types?
… the gotchas for type coercion seems to be about creating “rdf:type” triples
… (or rather not being able to do it)
… has anyone tried to explain that?

Gregg Kellogg: the core purpose of JSON-LD is to provide context, helping to interpret JSON,
… especially how to interpret strings in that JSON.
… It might intersect with “type-coercion with native value”,
… as some people are wanting to add triples to an object.
… Adding triples is the job of framing.

Rob Sanderson: and we fixed @default in framing, when applied to @type.
… Do we have an issue for that in the BP,
… we cause indeed we run into that issue a lot?
… points to consider

5.2. Multilingual Patterns

Rob Sanderson: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-bp/issues/5

Rob Sanderson: adam had noted that there is some confusion about how to use multilingual data values alongside language maps

Ivan Herman: I think two things are intertwined here
… the first is the use of language map, possibly with direction,
… the second is the use HTML literals.
… I would prefer to separate them in BP.
… gkellogg’s proposal was a hack to use almost the same syntax for two cases,
… which is pretty convoluted. It works, but should this be BP?

Gregg Kellogg: in one case, this is a language map; in the other case, this is data indexing.

Ivan Herman: yes, but using language tags for data-indexing is misleading.
… It mislead me.

Gregg Kellogg: language maps reflect in the RDF abstract syntax; data indexing is lost in the process.

Ivan Herman: the example is convoluted because it uses rdf:HTML,
… which I don’t think is very frequent.

Rob Sanderson: should we also discuss @none in this context?

Ivan Herman: yes

5.3. Base Context

Rob Sanderson: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-bp/issues/9

Rob Sanderson: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-rc

Rob Sanderson: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-rc/blob/main/context.jsonld

Rob Sanderson: the dedicated repo has one issue, requesting reviews on its content
… This document lists core aliases and core prefixes.
… Please review if before next week, and raise any issue for missing terms,
… or the way the context is defined.

Ivan Herman: One radical way of doing it is to put in the BP document this context with only the aliases,
… and leave aside the prefixes, which will raise the issue of “why this one and not that one”.
… Arguably, a few of them (rdf, owl) could be kept,
… but they are only used by RDF geeks who know what to do.

6. Adjourn

7. Resolutions