22 Feb 2018


alastairc, LisaSeemanKestenbaum, Mark_Wilcock, JohnRochford, kirkwood, Jan, MichaelC


<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> Collecting information on how to work more effectively with WCAG https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2018Feb/0015.html and reminder about reserch

<Mark_Wilcock> +present

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> scribe EA

Lisa provided a reminder that the wiki document for research is still available

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2018Feb/0015.html

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Research_sources

Just add citations and links and if poss add relevant points to coga gap analysis

Open action item to all the group

Standing commission to publish the Road Map from APA and WCAG group - passed

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/

Main page of the wiki has the list of requirements

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/List_for_Gap_Analysis_V2

The above link is the next version of the gap analysis

<JohnRochford> I apologize, but I can't get through the CAPTCHA to join vie WebEx. I'm working on a phone connection now.

Please interrupt if you have any points as we have members on the phone

End of the month is deadline for update of user needs

Current version also old so changes need to be made - action items - Lisa to deal with in the coming days

Jan and Shari action item to add summaries of more issue papers

Also going to publish how to make content usable for those with Cognitive impairments as an appendix - can be referenced as a separate document

Can be viewed and used now

<JohnRochford> I am on the phone now.

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://docs.google.com/document/d/11gsYl2Zml_waTlLgqKj17h9UMnwyMwxrILbS4ZP6oqs/edit#heading=h.4irsmvdd61po

A further Google document is one to use for approving the different sections in version 2 of the gap analysis

If you comment on the original and something is liked and it is ready, the section is moved to this approval document.

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> This document is to record the coga task force approving new and changed sections for the V2 road map and gap analysis.

<alastairc> The tables for review are here: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html

ooops last comment by EA should have said that the tables are in Github and will not be moved. No one wants to make comments there so if we want to approve each table then go to the Google doc to make a comment or like!


<alastairc> I'm happy to review from the point of view of understandability, but feel like this should come after it is 'correct'.

Lisa is keen that this should be understandable by as many people as possible, but in particular by web developers

<JohnRochford> At some point, I would like to discuss my completion of Action Items 263 and 264 (a duplicate), which is all about conveying what we are doing via simple language.

It will be more useful if it is understandable rather than just concentrating on testability etc.

Lisa has started to write sections in the main COGA friendly content and applications

<JohnRochford> yes

Lisa is adding John Rochford's action items

Lisa mentioned the links and personas - need to be sorted in the right order

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18bjXRKSW7hT8PQyS2TCzPyo90i55pJamIGSdTrYdBIQ/edit

Move links to the bottom of the document as may be out of scope but interesting. These persona's are those expected to be in target audience.

Alistair mentioned usability - wants to understand the scope - not telling people how to do usability testing but need to how should it be different if you are testing with those who have cognitive impairments and link to useful resources

Lisa asks if it would be possible to have some basic ideas about usability testing and then go into the specifics for those with cognitive impairments

Alistair is concerned about the complexity required and was asking about the differences that need to be made to the way testing is carried out.

Lisa mentioned guidance from Spain and Portugal 'Planner Inclusion' ?

Time for telemeetings for subgroup is now Monday

<alastairc> Thanks for changing it, I didn't see an email about the change (or time)

Need to try to attend as we are behind and need content by the end of February

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> Date/Time: MONDAYS EST 12 Noon UK 5 pm IST 7pm

<JohnRochford> Lisa, I am going to assume Action Items 263 and 264 are complete. Please let me know where I should post the text.

Mark thought he had completed his action items - will upload them ASAP

<JohnRochford> Roadmap

Items in the Roadmap on Github will need a pull request or send them in an email to Roy

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> send in an email to roy ran@w3.org, and ask him to change the roadmap\

<JohnRochford> Lisa, would you please send me Roy's email address via email?

<JohnRochford> And who is Roy?

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> cc the list

<JohnRochford> ran@w3.org ?

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> yes

<JohnRochford> ok tx

<JohnRochford> I can post the text here, if you want Lisa.

<JohnRochford> Our task force is making the Web easier to use by people who have trouble thinking. This is hard because: * there is not a lot of info about how people use the Web; * many people have many needs; * almost no testing has been done; * people don’t want to talk about having trouble; * many Website builders don’t know how to help people; and * text, pictures, and video must be made easy too.

Lisa asking if anyone was unhappy with the requests - no comments but text is above

Jan commented that she will be working on the document in the coming week. She can't make Monday's meeting

Lisa is happy to discuss any items with anyone to hasten the tasks that need completing.

<kirkwood> “trouble thinking” is not language I prefer.

<alastairc> people who think differently? (Too Apple? ;-)

<kirkwood> neurodiverse community?

Lisa mentioned the term 'people who have learning and cognitive disabilities' - will revisit the wording on the list

<JohnRochford> John, please suggest alternative language. Lisa, remember these statements are simplified versions of Roadmap language.

<JohnRochford> Yes, EA just captured well what I am trying to say.

<kirkwood> ways of thinking?

<JohnRochford> different ways of thinking?

Lisa different abilities and ways of thinking

Mark and Alastair - WCAG SCs - implementations for these at their AA, AAA levels - Can you take this on?

<alastairc> Just to check priority (for me), I'm assuming I should tackle: Updating the Coga friendly Doc, then review tables, then update Understanding / Techniques for 2.1.

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> ACTION: mark happy to make his site an implemetation of our SC

<trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Happy to make his site an implemetation of our sc [on Mark Wilcock - due 2018-03-01].

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> mark hopes to make it full comply

Alastair will make his site comply with WCAG 2.1

<JohnRochford> I have to join the Low Vision Task Force call now. Ciao.

Mark not Alastair

<Mark_Wilcock> https://a11y-resources.com/

Lisa mentioned - techniques to look at and exit criteria

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_CR_Exit_Criteria

Alastair asked about the implementation and the AAA purpose - vocabulary or the metadata? personalisation - attribute changed so needs updating

<alastairc> The user-agents should work on this page: https://john.foliot.ca/demos/autofill.html

Alastair prioritised the document work first and then the tables and finally understanding techniques for WCAG 2.1?

WCAG list discussing 1.3.4 - how useful is it? Lisa not so sure about its use for personalisation but helpful for mistakes

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> * Zakim 1. 1.3.4 in wcag. how do we feel https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#identify-common-purpose? [from LisaSeemanKestenbaum]

Alastair - says just using AA autofill - not worth a new SC but those attributes have support - but perhaps worthwhile as it opens the conversation about personalisation. So asking is it worth for AA?

<alastairc> Start of the 'should we put it off' thread: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2018JanMar/1277.html

Lisa feels autocomplete is very helpful, but will not really helps personalisation. More useful for those who have difficulties filling in forms

Possibly change the SC name to 'enable autocomplete' rather than personalisation.

<kirkwood> I would say “automate completion of forms”

<alastairc> thanks all, bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: mark happy to make his site an implemetation of our SC

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: alastairc LisaSeemanKestenbaum Mark_Wilcock JohnRochford kirkwood Jan MichaelC
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People with action items: happy mark

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