Chris: Joined EO at TPAC, backgroun in accessiiblity for 8 years, AMI for four, front end devleopment before that, IT in general for about 20 years
<shawn> Welcome, Chris!!!
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Agenda
Brent: Tuesday we had a demo of
the GitHub repo and outlined how to use it, how staff can help.
Questions welcome, direct to Eric or Shawn. Vivienne profiled
her work on Presentations and Training, we met with AG about
the Uniderstanding documents, more later in this meeting.
... lunched with Publishing WG. "getting to know you" and
explored ways to work together. We looked at the work on
re-thinking the Biz Case, feedback informed recent version will
look at that today.
... ended the day planning for user testing on Wed. EO did not
meet on Wed, but attended plenary and breakout sessions.
Several EO folks did informal WAI site designfeedback sessions
on the 4 visual prototypes.
... Thursday started with debrief of the previous days data,
most of the rest of the day spent analyzing, planning next
steps for the web site.
... also looked at process for editing content for new site and
have determined a new approach, later in the meeting. Big
thanks to Visa team for their hard work on alll aspects of this
work.
... questions?
<shawn> ACTION: Brent and Sharron and Shawn plan f2f for 2018
<trackbot> Created ACTION-386 - And sharron and shawn plan f2f for 2018 [on Brent Bakken - due 2017-11-24].
Sharron:And a survey is posted for 2018 face to face availability.
Brent: Initially, our approach to
revisions to new resources were distributed. We asked to do
minimal supervision. Have not made sufficient progress due in
part to confusion about what expectations are for small group
dynamic.
... to address that, we are renaming the small group an
"editorial team" and clarify they are meant to provide review
and feedback, not to rewrite but to provide feedback.
<Brent> New Schedule: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJb1_PNbT6bMEz0AuWA1HRj-w2LeujXMatvmajYS4is/edit#gid=148670560
Brent: have started a new sheet
on the management workbook to create a schedule that we will
all live by rather than waiting for editors to bring the work
to the full group.
... meant to help editors put things on a clear time table and
help EO know where to put current focus.
... Planning team will work with editors to provide support
and make a schedule that works for all. There are 17 resources
that need only light editing and Vicki took a first pass and
Nic and Shawn are doing the plain language, tersiification
work.
Sharron: An exception is the Business case which I am bringing to full group now because I am proposing a drastic revision.
<shawn> +1 to bringing drastic revisions to whole group early
Nic: I will need clarification about who I am working with on the 17. Shawn and I are working on 5 but what about the others?
Sharron:Original Editors when avaialble, staff when not.
Sharwn: to help understand background, and why we made the decisions we did
Sharron: Recommend to work with
the original editor for clarification and help set
direction.
... and take a tersification pass at all of them.
Brent: As we wrap up this section about the revised approach, sharpening forcus, setting timelines - any questions?
<shawn> Requirements Analysis: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Business_Case
<shawn> First page: https://w3c.github.io/wai-bcase/business-case/
Sharron: Most of the questions are about the first page of the draft revision of the Business Case. Please take a minute to review the current draft. Think about this draft as a one page resource.
Sharron: The previous Business
Case resource was useful and comprehensive, but some of the
content was out of date and the language was also dated and not sharp for business readers.
... I did a lot of research and reading many business articles
that discuss main drivers of business.
... The approach here on the revised version is to have a stand
alone article for business drivers in organizations. Things for
them to think about why accessibility is good business.
... Summary of relevant points of why accessibility benefits
business.
... The idea is that there would be some supportive links and
real business case statements from a variety of organizations -
these would be testimonials that would support the content on
this resource.
... So that is my general approach to this resource. I wanted
everyone to review and then ask some questions about this
direction.
<Norah> +1 on approach, agree it will resonate, like testimonials idea too!
Sharron: We have heard that
because this resource is on the WAI site, it is credible and
used even though it does not have specific verified data.
... So we want to try and get some of these stories from
organizations to provide support.
Kris Anne: I like this page a lot. About the diversity and inclusion part... Should this section be geared towards diversity and inclusion "within" companies?
Sharron: Yes, that was the point.
Thank you for bringing it up that it needs to come through more
clearly.
... I will make that point a bit more clear in the opening
paragraph and then explore internal and external diversity and
inclusion through out the rest of the section.
Kris Anne: The other area I question is the location of the legal risk. I think that it should be at the end.
Sharron: Yes, I have struggled
with the location of the legal risk consideration as
well.
... Probably it would be good for us to emphasise the other
reasons first. I will take another look and consider this more
deeply.
Nic: First, this work is amazing.
You have done a great job and everything makes sense.
... My concern is the readability of the content. At the moment
it is a little too high grade level (13) for readabililty.
Sharron: I will look at that. Thank you.
Chris: Would like to think about breaking this up a little bit more to make it more readable. It still seams like a lot of text right up front. Maybe consider seperate pages. There was some agreement. I was wondering if we wanted to apply the methodology of breaking things up more to this resource.
<shawn> +1 for summary - elevator pitch up front
Sharron: Good feedback. I thought
I had tried to do that. There are specific sections and bullet
point throughout. Would like to have some more feedback from
you [and Nic] on this point to be sure we are short and to the
point.
... Also, at the end of each section there is a link that will
drive people to more detail about each topic.
<shawn> example of summary up front: https://www.w3.org/WAI/users/inaccessible
Chris: The way that everything is sectioned is perfect. I think maybe getting the Cognitive group to give us more feedback on how to make these resources more readable and consumable. Maybe there is an approach that they have that we could explore. I am not sure what the answer is, but maybe we can explore that more.
Sharron: Also think about the title of the overall document and the sidebar navigation.
Norah: I like it a lot. More skimmable and usable with the headings and the bullets. I like the business terminology approach. I find it very readable. I can scan it and then come back if needed. I like the approach.
Robert: I noticed that some of the line links seem long and that may be contributing to the feeling of the lengthier text. I think with some tweaking of the link it could look a bit better.
<chris> agree with Robert
Robert: I wonder if using imagery in the resource would help chunck the content and make it easier to parse. Some types of images that are relevant.
Sharron: Yes, that is something we could explore maybe even iconography to help break up the text and focus people through the page.
+1 on iconography
<Norah> +1 on images throughout the entire website
James: I wanted to make a little reminder that Alicia will be out on leave for about 6 months soon. So may need other resource for icon and images.
<Vicki> +1 for Sharron. +1 for icons, +1 for side bar navigation.
Sharron: Thank you all for the feedback. If you have any other feedback, please send it to me. Feedback on the title is welcome too. Thank you all for the comments.
Brent: AGWG has requested that we
collaborate with them on developing the Understanding
documentation. EO agreed that they would like to take on the
work. We discussed it at TPAC with a joint meeting. They
anticipate 23 new SCs and the Understanding content related to
those has been developed by the respective TFs. They have also
looked at places in other, existing SCs should reference some of
the new topic areas -
low vision, cognitive, and mobile. They want to
pass the editorship of the Understanding documents entirely to
EOWG. We resisted because we need the technical expertise of
the TFs and AG participants. Next steps are to have small teams
from each WG get together and determine who will lead.
... Shadi is part of AG as well as EO and from a staff
perspective he has a responsibility to help ensure on-time
completion of WCAG 2.1. So it makes sense for him to lead and
several folks on EO have said they wanted to help. So the
timeline on this is short - the goal is to announce in summer
and so the work should be done by spring/late spring.
... offering to help are Norah, Vivienne, Sylvie, James, Denis,
Brent, Sharron. Wanted to remind all that this must be done in
addition to the editorial work you have committed to on EO
resources.
Chris: you can add me
Brent: is everyone who volunteered still able to help? Or is there anyone else who would like to join?
Sharron: I would like to withdraw.
Robert: I would like to help
<Norah> confirm
Sharron: Be sure to understand this is in addition to the other committments to EOWG work.
KrisAnne:this week has reminded me why i can't commit to things
James: I'll opt out too
Shawn: Some Understanding docs are ready now for EO input.
Brent: We are trying to scare you off to be sure you have the commitment but also important to remember that the bulk of the content is drafted, it is more of a question of doing reviews and editing for clarity and focus. Shadi do we have a timeline?
Shadi: Yes, they are ready to throw it all over the wall to us now. The idea for us would be not to take responsibility not even for sign off but to be a sounding board, editorial support. We have diversity of perspectives and think we can help quite a bit.
Brent: I will review the people who are willing to help and find someone to directly support him with the adminstration of the group. Any other questions.
Brent: We have the survey open,
it has been for a week, will close on Monday.
... the expectation of these reviews is to focus on the
changes, the updates so you can approve thsoe. Review can be
quite focused since the previous version had been
approved.
... remember to be specific about your comments. As you raise a
GitHub issue, indicate Important (!) or Editor's Discretion
(ED)
... also we do not have a final design so do not comment on
those design elements
Shadi: I have to comment on design issues, I love it. Is this list of changes complete?
Robert: Yes, since the last approved version.
Shawn: One thing we found in usability testing was that people do not understand that the heading itself is a link. We may need to do the same for English as non-English.
Chris: Because the cursor does not change?
Shawn: No it just did not register, so I think it needs to come out.
Robert: I can understand that it has not come out clearly. I think we can do something with that.
Shawn: And the page that we tested was in English so it is relelvant for those as well.
Robert: We can go an extra mile for that.
Brent: Questions?
<Sharron:Complete the survey. Even if you don't have time, select "abstain"
<chris> looks great, Robert!
<Vicki> +1 Robert .... so nice and clear.
<shadi> +1
Brent: Thanks again Robert for your time and attention to the detail
<rjolly> thank you! it's definitely a result of feedback from the group and loads of help from Mary Jo, Eric, and Shawn
<Norah> +1 also so much easier to navigate in the new design!
Brent: As the end of year
holidays approach, please take the availability survey to help
us see when we should/should not meet.
... can see the results and welcome question or comments?
... in the past is to skip the one after US Thanksgiving and
may skip some in December. But will keep rolling out work,
surveys, etc as possible when people have the time to focus on
EO with a breather from work duties.
Sharron: There was a woman at the session that Robert and I did who had attended last year. We did the same "Walk" last year with Sharron, Shawn, Brent. She said she followed our guide to report a bug on BAD but it had not been fixed.
Sharron: Rachel from W3C
Publishing group invited Sharron to do plug for EO.
... As we're updating, including references and examples
related to publishing and her talk was mostly about the merger between IDPF and W3C.
... also met with Access Learn CG leaders Mary & David.
Shawn: fyi, they have written information for us, too.]
Sharron: Good affirmation of the value of the work that we do.
[ Shawn also talked with David]
Sharron: Mary and David have identified gaps in WCAG related to accessible online learning. Many of them are just references that are missing.
Shawn:Here's the Access Learn spreadsheet, that we have coordinated with them on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LHynDV-umVHF3NcKkCIuSL12lzZCj-2qS4gjmLtsXto/edit#gid=1155254872
Shadi: I'm not managing BAD right now.
Shadi:The earlier question about the bug in BAD and there is a redesign of that resource ongoing and so we have not specifically addressed the bug reports but put them into the plans for the redesign of that resource.
Shawn: is anyone paying attention to those?
KrisAnne: As we prepared for our accessibility meetup, someone posted this:
http://whatusersdo.com/blog/16-useful-accessibility-tools-resources-usability-testing-design/
scribe: and it was exciting to me that our stuff is still being referenced as a solid reference to web accessibility.
Norah: I have a couple of short user stories arounf epub and learning resources that might be a good starting point for integrating those kind of resources, inlcuding for LMS
Shawn: Should look at them and let AccessLearn know that as well.
Brent: Weekly survey linked to minutes and maybe more ?? about Biz Case, may not meet next Friday will get the info out as soon as possible.
Sharron: Let's see what the availability survey says, I would not mind nmeeting next Friday.
Brent:thanks all, appreciate all who traveled to TPAC and appreciate the time and effort and look forward to more rapid progress with our new methodology.