RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference

12 Apr 2017

See also: IRC log


TallTed, pano, ipolikof, hknublau, sandro, Nicky, Jack, Hodges


<sandro> +1 later is nice

<TallTed> scribenick: ipolikof

<TallTed> PROPOSED: Approve minutes of the 05 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-shapes-minutes.html

<hknublau> +1


<sandro> +1

<pano> +1

RESOLUTION: Approve minutes of the 05 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-shapes-minutes.html

CR Process

call next week, but we will run the poll to see if time change is better for people

for now, it is the same time

sandro: SHACL for SHACL appendix is no longer marked as "at risk", but the language changed to give us flexibility to fix bugs
... no charter extension yet, if we can get out of CR before the group expires, it is a mechanical process after that and we are guaranteed an extension
... we will not know about the extension decision until mid May

Nicky: We just finished implementation, no implementation report yet

sandro: no need to open source, you just need to run the test suite and give us results

hknublau: there is an example of a .ttl file to send

Nicky: I will look into it next week and will send

sandro: anyone else we can reach to?

Dimitris had an implementation. He said it would take only 2 days to add SHACL-SPARQL. He probably needs to update to because there has been changes since he implemented. Not sure if he has time.

sandro: SHACL-SPARQL is at risk. There are issues Peter raised. Director said that if the implementations prove there are no issues, then we can go ahead. Otherwise, we will need to split it into a WG Note.

TallTed: Does the test suite covers SAHCL-SPARQL

hknublau: It does, but may be not all scenarious

TallTed: can we send an e-mail to encourage implementers to submit?

Link from shacl.ttl to shacl-shacl.ttl

<TallTed> thread - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-data-shapes-wg/2017Apr/0012.html

hknublau: I can do the e-mail

sandro: procedurally, Peter's objections are considered to be addressed, we no longer have any objections.
... DIrector wants a semantic link to shacl-shacl, rdfs:seeAlso will not do because it is not semantic

hknublau: sh:shapesGraph is intended to point from instances (data graph) to shapes. shacl.ttl file will be imported into many shapes graphs. we probably need a new property.

<sandro> "a suggested shapes graph for use with this ontology"

<sandro> "recommended default value for sh:shapesGraph"

<sandro> "defaultShapesGraph"

sandro: what would we name a new property and its description. Basically, this is a default shapes graph

<sandro> TallTed: "default" sounds like there will be a behavior, "suggested" is more human

TallTed: By calling it default, you are suggesting a behaviour. Better suggestedShapesGraph
... There could be multiple suggested shapes graphs, companies could create their own and tools could be built to ask the user which one they want to use

hknublau: We will be changing the spec to introduce the new property. Is it OK?

sandro: I will ask the Director. Another option is to put this property into extensions. Has the group talked about extensions?

TallTed: not yet

sandro: The namespace changes with credible extension, but the spec doesn't. The spec has non normative text to tell people to look for possible extensions in the namespace

hknublau: I will add the new property sh:suggestedShapesGraph into the namespace

pano: suggested sounds vague, can we call it SHACL shapes graph?

hknublau: No the idea is that this could be for any shapes graph, not just shacl-shacl

pano: OK, then suggested makes more sense

hknublau: we could put it into http header, but this would not be Linked Data

<TallTed> PROPOSED: add (first) extension to SHACL for sh:suggestedShapesGraph, with description and initial predicate pointing from shacl.ttl to shacl-shacl.ttl


<hknublau> +1

<sandro> +1

<pano> +1

<TallTed> +1

<Nicky> +1

Jack Hodges - +1

RESOLUTION: add (first) extension to SHACL for sh:suggestedShapesGraph, with description and initial predicate pointing from shacl.ttl to shacl-shacl.ttl

Potential WG Notes

<TallTed> • SHACL Compact Syntax (potentially): http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl-compact-syntax/

<TallTed> • SHACL-SPARQL Advanced Features (planned): http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl-asf/

<TallTed> • SHACL-JS (potentially): http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl-js/

hknublau: I worked on compact syntax, we were chartered to do one, some people prefer it. What I have is not a complete coverage, but it covers a good subset of SHACL Core
... I am about half way through ANTLR grammar which is linked in the document. I also started to work on test cases to help my own implementation. My proposal is to publish this as a WG Note.

TallTed: It needs some prose. Otherwise, looks definitely useful

sandro: how similar to ShEx compact syntax?

hknublau: very similar, but adopted to SHACL semantics

sandro: may be worthwhile noting the differences

hknublau: probably in the wiki page because ShEx will evolve
... anybody has concerns, we are introducing another syntax, people will start using it, are we splitting the community?

TallTed: this is just a syntactic sugar

sandro: Tests are needed

hknublau: I will do some tests, but this is a side project only

sandro: As a user I would find it apealing

hknublau: As a tool vendor, we would probably give users a text editor to type this in, but turn it into RDF, so not use it as an exchange format

sandro: This is less important than the test suite, so if this is a distraction from the test suite we should not spend time on this
... need to think about corner cases on the test suite, we need it to be complete

hknublau: I tried as much as I could think of, need input

sandro: something to add to the implementers outreach e-mail, asking if anyone could suggest tests

TallTed: Advanced features WG Note

hknublau: This was spun of from the spec in January, it includes features we promised in previous decisions, started to work on this with Simon, but so far he has not done much

Can Dean help there?

hknublau: Yes, this is probably of some interest to Dean, I can ask. Also need to ask Simon how much time he has
... JS extension

pano: have a client who is interested in this, would be nice

TallTed: is this parallel to SHACL-SPARQL?

hknublau: Yes, I have a playground implementation

TallTed: I have no personal objection to this going out as a note, as long as this does not interfere with the main activity of testing

Test Suite

TallTed: If the WG ends quickly, we can publish them as Notes, if we get extended, we could think of getting some of this on the CR track

pano: interesting e-mail on the public mailing list

<pano> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017Apr/0015.html

hknublau: I did not respond intentionally, to see if anyone in the community responds

TallTed: Do we have an example? If not, can we add one to the spec?

Holger, can you add an example?

hknublau: There are many scenarios, why adding this one?

sandro: We are free to add editorial changes

What do we want in the primer? Is it more examples?

TallTed: Typically, primer is a simple "hello word"

sandro: Primer is that, cookbook would have more examples, things people would not think about, best practices

TallTed: We could start FAQs

This would be towards the cookbook?

TallTed: Yes, community driven

Wiki page then?

sandro: We could put it in the W3C wiki so it continues to be editable after the WG ends

<sandro> https://www.w3.org/wiki

TallTed: I am more likely to contribute if it was in the wiki, not github

me too

<sandro> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Shacl/whatever

<TallTed> PROPOSED: we will set up a W3C wiki page as a base FAQ, for community-driven Q&A towards "SHACL-cookbook"

<sandro> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Shacl/Examples maybe

<sandro> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SHACL/Examples maybe

we will send e-mail to the public mailing list announcing this


<sandro> schedule doodle poll - http://doodle.com/poll/c9suraca8rucrpnw

<TallTed> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Approve minutes of the 05 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-shapes-minutes.html
  2. add (first) extension to SHACL for sh:suggestedShapesGraph, with description and initial predicate pointing from shacl.ttl to shacl-shacl.ttl
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.152 (CVS log)
$Date: 2017/04/12 13:13:33 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152  of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/ted:/TallTed:/
Succeeded: s/fake/vague/
Succeeded: s/http/schedule doodle poll - http/
Default Present: TallTed, pano, ipolikof, hknublau, sandro, Nicky, Jack, Hodges
Present: TallTed pano ipolikof hknublau sandro Nicky Jack Hodges
Found ScribeNick: ipolikof
Inferring Scribes: ipolikof
Found Date: 12 Apr 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/04/12-shapes-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]