See also: IRC log
<sandro> +1 later is nice
<TallTed> scribenick: ipolikof
<TallTed> PROPOSED: Approve minutes of the 05 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-shapes-minutes.html
RESOLUTION: Approve minutes of the 05 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-shapes-minutes.html
call next week, but we will run the poll to see if time change is better for people
for now, it is the same time
sandro: SHACL for SHACL appendix
is no longer marked as "at risk", but the language changed to
give us flexibility to fix bugs
... no charter extension yet, if we can get out of CR before the group expires, it is a mechanical process after that and we are guaranteed an extension
... we will not know about the extension decision until mid May
Nicky: We just finished implementation, no implementation report yet
sandro: no need to open source, you just need to run the test suite and give us results
hknublau: there is an example of a .ttl file to send
Nicky: I will look into it next week and will send
sandro: anyone else we can reach to?
Dimitris had an implementation. He said it would take only 2 days to add SHACL-SPARQL. He probably needs to update to because there has been changes since he implemented. Not sure if he has time.
sandro: SHACL-SPARQL is at risk. There are issues Peter raised. Director said that if the implementations prove there are no issues, then we can go ahead. Otherwise, we will need to split it into a WG Note.
TallTed: Does the test suite covers SAHCL-SPARQL
hknublau: It does, but may be not all scenarious
TallTed: can we send an e-mail to encourage implementers to submit?
<TallTed> thread - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-data-shapes-wg/2017Apr/0012.html
hknublau: I can do the e-mail
sandro: procedurally, Peter's
objections are considered to be addressed, we no longer have
... DIrector wants a semantic link to shacl-shacl, rdfs:seeAlso will not do because it is not semantic
hknublau: sh:shapesGraph is intended to point from instances (data graph) to shapes. shacl.ttl file will be imported into many shapes graphs. we probably need a new property.
<sandro> "a suggested shapes graph for use with this ontology"
<sandro> "recommended default value for sh:shapesGraph"
sandro: what would we name a new property and its description. Basically, this is a default shapes graph
<sandro> TallTed: "default" sounds like there will be a behavior, "suggested" is more human
TallTed: By calling it default,
you are suggesting a behaviour. Better
... There could be multiple suggested shapes graphs, companies could create their own and tools could be built to ask the user which one they want to use
hknublau: We will be changing the spec to introduce the new property. Is it OK?
sandro: I will ask the Director. Another option is to put this property into extensions. Has the group talked about extensions?
TallTed: not yet
sandro: The namespace changes with credible extension, but the spec doesn't. The spec has non normative text to tell people to look for possible extensions in the namespace
hknublau: I will add the new property sh:suggestedShapesGraph into the namespace
pano: suggested sounds vague, can we call it SHACL shapes graph?
hknublau: No the idea is that this could be for any shapes graph, not just shacl-shacl
pano: OK, then suggested makes more sense
hknublau: we could put it into http header, but this would not be Linked Data
<TallTed> PROPOSED: add (first) extension to SHACL for sh:suggestedShapesGraph, with description and initial predicate pointing from shacl.ttl to shacl-shacl.ttl
Jack Hodges - +1
RESOLUTION: add (first) extension to SHACL for sh:suggestedShapesGraph, with description and initial predicate pointing from shacl.ttl to shacl-shacl.ttl
<TallTed> • SHACL Compact Syntax (potentially): http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl-compact-syntax/
<TallTed> • SHACL-SPARQL Advanced Features (planned): http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl-asf/
<TallTed> • SHACL-JS (potentially): http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl-js/
hknublau: I worked on compact
syntax, we were chartered to do one, some people prefer it.
What I have is not a complete coverage, but it covers a good
subset of SHACL Core
... I am about half way through ANTLR grammar which is linked in the document. I also started to work on test cases to help my own implementation. My proposal is to publish this as a WG Note.
TallTed: It needs some prose. Otherwise, looks definitely useful
sandro: how similar to ShEx compact syntax?
hknublau: very similar, but adopted to SHACL semantics
sandro: may be worthwhile noting the differences
hknublau: probably in the wiki
page because ShEx will evolve
... anybody has concerns, we are introducing another syntax, people will start using it, are we splitting the community?
TallTed: this is just a syntactic sugar
sandro: Tests are needed
hknublau: I will do some tests, but this is a side project only
sandro: As a user I would find it apealing
hknublau: As a tool vendor, we would probably give users a text editor to type this in, but turn it into RDF, so not use it as an exchange format
sandro: This is less important
than the test suite, so if this is a distraction from the test
suite we should not spend time on this
... need to think about corner cases on the test suite, we need it to be complete
hknublau: I tried as much as I could think of, need input
sandro: something to add to the implementers outreach e-mail, asking if anyone could suggest tests
TallTed: Advanced features WG Note
hknublau: This was spun of from the spec in January, it includes features we promised in previous decisions, started to work on this with Simon, but so far he has not done much
Can Dean help there?
hknublau: Yes, this is probably
of some interest to Dean, I can ask. Also need to ask Simon how
much time he has
... JS extension
pano: have a client who is interested in this, would be nice
TallTed: is this parallel to SHACL-SPARQL?
hknublau: Yes, I have a playground implementation
TallTed: I have no personal objection to this going out as a note, as long as this does not interfere with the main activity of testing
TallTed: If the WG ends quickly, we can publish them as Notes, if we get extended, we could think of getting some of this on the CR track
pano: interesting e-mail on the public mailing list
hknublau: I did not respond intentionally, to see if anyone in the community responds
TallTed: Do we have an example? If not, can we add one to the spec?
Holger, can you add an example?
hknublau: There are many scenarios, why adding this one?
sandro: We are free to add editorial changes
What do we want in the primer? Is it more examples?
TallTed: Typically, primer is a simple "hello word"
sandro: Primer is that, cookbook would have more examples, things people would not think about, best practices
TallTed: We could start FAQs
This would be towards the cookbook?
TallTed: Yes, community driven
Wiki page then?
sandro: We could put it in the W3C wiki so it continues to be editable after the WG ends
TallTed: I am more likely to contribute if it was in the wiki, not github
<TallTed> PROPOSED: we will set up a W3C wiki page as a base FAQ, for community-driven Q&A towards "SHACL-cookbook"
<sandro> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Shacl/Examples maybe
<sandro> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SHACL/Examples maybe
we will send e-mail to the public mailing list announcing this
<sandro> schedule doodle poll - http://doodle.com/poll/c9suraca8rucrpnw
<TallTed> trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152 of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ted:/TallTed:/ Succeeded: s/fake/vague/ Succeeded: s/http/schedule doodle poll - http/ Default Present: TallTed, pano, ipolikof, hknublau, sandro, Nicky, Jack, Hodges Present: TallTed pano ipolikof hknublau sandro Nicky Jack Hodges Found ScribeNick: ipolikof Inferring Scribes: ipolikof Found Date: 12 Apr 2017 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/04/12-shapes-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]