Eric: Finishing up Carousel Tutorial. I have addressed the open issues and thanks to Kris Anne for her edit pass - great help on streamlining text. Really good to get that feedback, several things are much clearer. Looking forward to doing that in the others as well.
... another thing from last week was Denis's suggestion to change the hover focus indication and it is done. Addressed Howard's request to change the link to the working example, came out well.
<yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/carousels/structure/#general-structure
Eric: I changed the wording around the touch area proposed by Shadi, made it more general. I expect these changes to be OK with him. Removed contrast values and link instead to the design tip as we discussed last week.
<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/issues/408
Eric: other small things, word changes, made everything more straightforward. One question that came up was the heading "What are the Key Points?"
<Brent> Live draft link to Carousel Concepts: https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/carousels/
Eric: Kris Anne had one suggestion but it seemed not quite relevant to this section so I opened an issue for group consideration.
Brent: Before you move on, I know we will have a question on the survey. Maybe we can take a minute to look at what they will be asked to do?
<yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/carousels/#what-are-the-key-points
KrisAnne: My rationale was that we had a what and a why as previous headings and so I was looking for the how which is why I proposed what I did.
Eric: I massively simplified the menu styling page and hope you may review that as well KrisAnne.
<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/issues/407
Eric: adding a mention of the issues on flyout menus requested by Shawn and a few other things. One important thing about the structure is the placement of the application menus page. I got several GitHub issues about simplification, need to make more distinguishable from the rest and to make content deeper and more specific.
... I want to ask the group's quick reaction to the idea to take out of the page navigation and create it's own tutorial or within the general aria tutorial. To avoid mixing two topics in one tutorial. That will allow as well for this one to get wrapped up more quickly. Thoughts?
<yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/site-navigation/application-menus/
Brent: How will separating web application menus from the menus/navigation tutorials impact a developer's perspective?
Adina: We have the issue a lot where application menus vs web page issues get confused. We should make sure people understand these are entirely separate things.
Eric: The page is relatively long for a tutorials page and is attached to an examples page. If we also add the subsections it could be really really long.
Adina: Is there a way to link between the two for people who aren't sure what they are looking for?
Sharron: Seems to me like a good idea to separate them.
Brent: Any more questions or comments about Eric's report?
Brent: The location is confirmed, the Hotel Solamar, in the GasLamp district of downtown San Diego, close to conference hotel. Also there is the participation area at the bottom to complete. I would like everyone to indicate ye, no, phone participation etc so we have a clear idea of how to prepare.
<Brent> F2F Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_February_2017#Agenda
Brent: draft agenda. Won't go through in detail but quick review of this draft. wanted to take your questions, comments.
Sharron: I want to strongly encourage everyone to be pro-active in suggesting what we work on. If you have resources you are managing or any issue that you want to bring for deeper attention, this is the time for that.
Brent: So I welcome your thoughts about what to do with our time together.
Brent: Task Force has been working diligently putting in lots of time on metadata, IA, and visual design. Links to the email, the visual design, and the GitHUb repository are in the agenda.
Alicia: Any questions before we jump in? First few slides are style guides, documentation of contrast, calling out that accent colors are for graphics, not text. Third page is element style documentation. Some examples of how graphics might be restyled with these new approaches, etc.
... next are some sample treatments, samples of external links, accordians, etc.
Alicia: components are meant to appear wherever we need them to be, supporting flexibility.
Adina: This looks fantastic! I love it. Couple of questions. In the code snippet, have you tested the red and green against the background? If I can suggest that you have a button to allow change to black and white or something like that. That way people who get something out of color get what they need while we allow an alternative for those distracted by it.
... I also did not see the focus states. That would be helpful to me. Also, font weight and face...you may want to make a quickpage, not a mockup. Open up an HTML page in all the different browsers and OS to be sure your fonts are still rendering nicely.
<Adina> http://haltersweb.github.io/Accessibility/font-sizing-and-contrast.html
Adina: Finally, about your font weight, you want to think in terms of your 100s numbers and stay in 400 or above. make sure if you go into the 300 you need to consider this
Alicia: Are those consistent among fonts?
Adina: yes generally so. And a reminder that when we think in terms of point vs pixel they are not the same. it is bigger than people sometimes realize.
Eric: I have tested all the code sample text and will continue to do so. We are open to a different color scheme as well and I like the idea of toggle for the black and white version.
... wanted to comment on testing - we want to get this into a browser as soon as possible to test in browsers and mobile rendering etc. I expect the design process to be quite iterative.
Shawn: Adina mentioned font weight and contrast, wondered about people's reactions to the visibility of Heading Level 1 at that weight and color?
Adina: Looks like 6.4 to 1?
<rjolly> The visibility of the heading level 1 is fine to me.
Eric: I rather like it, seems straightforward and clean. Quite visible.
<Laura> I like the color. I think the weight could be a bit heavier.
Sharron: +1
<krisannekinney> i like the look of it.
Brent: Any additional questions or comments?
Robert: I saw a mention about inpage navigation. Maybe that bar on the left. Is that a good place for that to be? I wonder if, for the secondary page if there should be a "What's on this page" at the top of the nav bar so that people understand what the left hand list relates to.
<yatil> +1 to adding a heading to the in-page navigation, maybe even putting it to the right side of the page
Alicia: I will talk to Charlotte and see what she thinks.
Robert: Great, this looks great by the way, can see really good design coming out of this.
<Laura> +1 to Roberts comments. Great job Alicia.
Eric: Want to support what Robert said, call it outwith color or placement. To let people understand the difference between a list of related links and the inpage navigation.
Brent: If you read the email from James that Sharron forwarded, please continue to comment. Use the link in the eamil to have the proper subject line. We want all comments and want to be sure that the TF can focus on the most important ones so please use the indicator of how strongly you feel about an issue so we know how to address.
... Before making a comment, look at existing issues. If you find one related to your perspective, add to an existing thread. We are shooting for end of day Monday. If possible submit your comments by then to begin processing by the next TF meeting Wednesday.
James: Welcome feedback, I will continue to monitor them and summarize. We want all feedback and as you submit remember that we have an agressive timeline. Try to be as clear as possible in your comments and appreciation to Alicia's time and incredible work.
Alicia: I feel like we are moving along, things seem easy so far, thanks for the comments.
<yatil> +100
<Howard> +1 to design kudos
Shawn: The design is just awesome, we are all so excited about seeing this take shape.
<krisannekinney> Just a comment - This is a beautiful design - very easy to read and i enjoy the simplistic look of it.
Brent: I will put reminders in the survey to respond to the design. Any additional comment?
Brent: EOWG has to recharter again this year. Hoping to have a solid draft by the end of February. This is your WG so please take a serious look at what we are saying - why do we want to be a WG? what do we expect to accomplish? how long will it take? - these are all considerations that inform how our charter is developed.
... what are our ideas about the future of this group and our work together? think about our purpose and mission and how best to meet that.
Sharron: We should be mindful of the fact that last charter period was quite contentious with several in the AC opposing EO being rechartered as a WG and suggesting a status of IG or community group which has less staff support and visibility. We should strive for a clear statement of vision and scope that is member driven and aligned with W3C goals.
Shawn:I wanted to add that there was also lots of strong, glowing support (along with objections)
Sharron:Absolutely, good point Shawn. I think people who understand what we actually do support this work very stongly. One of the jobs of this charter period will be to make that crystal clear.
KrisAnne: As part of the outreach has it ever been done to ask people what are the challenges that people face when dealing with the Guidelines?
... as a newcomer to accessibility I have found that I struggle with meeting guidelines while not violating the construct of the testing environment I am creating. Can we also ask across industry to learn what are their challenges to implementing the standards?
... when I hear outreach I think of dialogue...talking to people about why it is so hard for them to meet the standard? I know no one sets out to be difficult but it is.
<Brent> 2017 Chartering Wiki: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EO_2017_Chartering
Shawn: We did something like that informally a in 2015 at Accessing Higher ground. We use to do something like that at CSUN as a WAI Interest Group meeting that was open to everyone.
Adina: I think with the rapidity of change in mobile and such, there are constant requests from developers about using different platfroms, especially native apps for mobile. The whole emergence of custom web components that leave semantics in the dust. So a deeper understanding of ARIA is needed and people don't know where to look for all these things.
Shawn: Add to the bulleted list for Considerations
<Caleb> +1000 to adding screencasts
Brent: The success of the videos might drive some of the deliverables as well
<krisannekinney> videos would be very helpful
<yatil> [ I have actually played around with a carousel animation a few weeks back and would love to expand on that in the next charter period :-) ]
<James> Agree with Krisanne that visual "is where the web is moving" and we need to keep up with the way our users prefer to consume
Eric: What I have seen is someone posting a talk they did based on our business case. I think that is a strong incentive for updating that resource to include modern platforms like mobile.
<yatil> [ Link to the talk based on the business case: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JanMar/0451.html ]
Shawn: With Easy Checks, Caleb and I have some great ideas like quick screen cast videos that show you what to do it. Filtering as well to say...these are my tools and then I would have only what I need and can easily use. To simplify and make more direct the user experience. If EO thinks this is useful, we can define it for the next charter. What do you all think?
<yatil> +1000 for customizing the EasyChecks
<Adina> I like the idea
Sharron: I think customization of Easy Checks and screen casts are a great idea
<Laura> +1
<rjolly> Great idea!
Brent: We will process these ideas and hope that you will continue to think about it and submit your ideas. This is quite valueable and we appreciate it.
Brent: Watch for updates for WFTW, there will be a survey, reminder to look at design, charter brainstorming, update to F2F work. When you add to the wiki put your name and date so we can follow up if needed.
Brent: Thanks everyone and see you next week.