W3C

Web Real-Time Communications Working Group Teleconference

12 Dec 2016

Agenda

Slides

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Bernard_Aboba, Cullen_Jennings (fluffy), Dan_Burnett, Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, Jan-Ivar_Bruaroey, Giridhar_Mandyam, Mihály_Mészáros (Misi), Patrick_Rockhill, Peter_Thatcher, Sherwin_Sim, Shijun_Sun, Simon, Stefan_Håkansson, Taylor_Brandstetter, Varun_Singh, Vivien_Lacourba
Regrets
Chair
Stefan
Scribe
jean-Ivar

Contents


Slides

<dom> ScribeNick: jib

Issue 350: New permission definitions are wrong (Jan-Ivar)

New permission definitions are wrong. #350

jib: jib People should review PR 421

Add Privacy Indicator Requirements #421

preview link https://rawgit.com/jan-ivar/mediacapture-main/9551c1c63274ca8ad6d3fcb931faa69cd55dc01b/getusermedia.html#privacy-indicator-requirements

<scribe> ACTION: People should review PR 421 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action01]

Issue 380: Define restrictions on device-info permission (Harald)

Define restrictions on device-info permission. #380

<scribe> ACTION: People should review permissions/131 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action02]

Issue 387: Reinstate strong language on permission ending when tracks stop (Stefhak)

Reinstate strong language on permission ending when tracks stop, lost by editorial mistake #387

jib: I think we are good on this one

Issue 403: Polling enumerateDevices potentially being a fingerprint (Bernard)

Polling enumerateDevices potentially being a fingerprint. #403

Bernard: This is solved by PR412.

Rules for when devicechange events may fire #412

jib: agree

shijun: agree

Issue 414: Devicechange events when not focus - permitted or forbidden? (Shijun)

Devicechange events when not focus - permitted or forbidden? #414

Shijun: ok for jib to add clarifying text about MUST NOT in a pr

<scribe> ACTION: jib to provide PR to clarify MUST NOT [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-121 - Provide pr to clarify must not [on Jan-Ivar Bruaroey - due 2016-12-19].

Issue 417: result of enumerateDevices when there is no origin (Shijun)

result of enumerateDevices when there is no origin #417

Shijun: I think it's ok to leave spec as is

Issue 952/PR953: Hold Examples (Bernard)

Section 5.4.1: Hold Examples #952

Fixes for Hold Examples #953

Bernard: issue is it stops immediately, but doesn't stop rendering immediately (?)

stefan: this works for me

bernard: next is example 4
... rewrite to use setRemoteDescription, or [something else]

fluffy: how to stop sending packets?

Bernard: I think the right way to stop is replaceTrack with null

add example to show that

and second example to use setRemoteDesciption

fluffy: rtcp and ice consent still happen

taylor: replaceTrack null is better

Bernard: next is example 5
... add some context
... example 6 is response to example 5 (off of hold)
... instead of replaceTrack null, bring back a sending track, like a mic track

stefan: looks good

714/PR 776: STUN/TURN OAuth token parameter (Misi)

STUN/TURN OAuth token auth parameter passing #714

Support for OAuth in TURN credentials (Issue 714 patch) #776

stefan: think we need justin and ekr before we can decide

fluffy: leans toward 2 and 3

<vivien> [We are discussing the 3 proposed options listed at https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/issues/714#issuecomment-260009020 ]

stefan: discuss later and on list
... and in issue 714

misi: next slide

stefan: Please review issue 714/PR 776 - STUN/TURN OAuth Token (cont’d)

<scribe> ACTION: stefanh to email specific people to review 714/PR 776 - STUN/TURN OAuth Token (cont’d) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Email specific people to review 714/pr 776 - stun/turn oauth token (cont’d) [on Stefan Håkansson - due 2016-12-19].

Issue 760/Issue 726/PR 968: Adding ufrag to candidates, and ufrag+mid to end-of-candidates (Taylor)

taylor: next slide

jib: maybe "" instead of null

fluffy: like the idea. "" better

<scribe> ACTION: taylor-b to update PR to add "" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Error finding 'taylor-b'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/users>.

everyone agrees

Issue 849: AllowUnverifiedMedia RTCConfiguration Property (Fluffy)

Specify an AllowUnverifiedMedia RTCConfiguration property #849

<vivien> (now on slide 31)

fluffy: propose a system where we can deal with media before we have its fingerprint. marked as unverified. torn down if not a match later
... the signaling latency causes clipping on these hellos otherwise
... allow a receiver track to be hooked up before fingerprint arrives

--- an optional thing, some way to do this

pthatcher: security issues with this, make it time bound. knowing that there isn't a long term mim
... late in the game. don't want to spend time around sec issues that could delay spec

fluffy: no problem with time bound e.g. 1/2 second.
... was in spec before, got accidentally removed?
... playing out (or buffering?) media before it had a fingerprint
... buffering requires speeding up audio
... and also has audio artifacts, at the time when echo cancellers are training. buffer bad
... caused by delay in signaling path
... people expect being able to say hello as soon as they connect

pthatcher: could this be solved by delaying the user perception of when call is picked up?

fluffy: this is on receiver when they click answer, they want to say hello immediately

stefanh: could PRANSWER be used?

fluffy: privacy thing you run into. yes you could use that to some degree

Bernard: could be bad in video too if you lose a key frame

fluffy: buffering works well for video. hard to implement

Bernard: it's a real problem we've encountered

stefanh: I don't see a solution. quite a bit of work

fluffy: allow transceiver to wire up instead of error. (apps would need to explicitly wire this up)
... simple spec change. ease up on RFC 4572 Section 6.2
... add time limit

pthatcher: trade-off: spec work, any security issues?

Bernard: video codecs are complicated. inject w/buffer overflow etc.

fluffy: still need ice credentials. Alice was willing to take media from connection

stefanh: don't we need an API for opt-in?

pthatcher: real issue is security issue

Bernard: ssl implementation may not let me do this

pthatcher: don't want to spend a lot of time on it, and make sure it's optional. Browser doesn't have to implement it if there's a concern.
... ok with fluffy making a PR

Bernard: write up something to give to security people to consider

Issue 921: currentRemoteDescription.sdp - does it need to match the last SDP set via setRemoteDescription? (Bernard)

currentRemoteDescription.sdp -- does it need to match the last SDP set via setRemoteDescription? #921

Bernard: proposal to add text to explicitly say set SDP when read back may be different

stefanh: great

Issue 924: Remove legacy getStats API?

Remove legacy getStats API? #924

<vivien> /me notes that even if Harald is not present Varun is on the call

jib: jib I support this

bernard: me too

stefanh: lets do it

Issue 945: setParameters changing simulcast parameters (Bernard)

sender.setParameters(): Changing simulcast parameters? #945

pthatcher: we could not add simulcast streams after addTransceiver
... In favor of saying you pick how many you want when you call addTransceiver

fluffy,taylor: agree

Bernard: people won't cry as they can ask for the max up front
... then inactivate them if you wanted less

Issue 941: STUN/TURN auto discovery handling (misi)

STUN/TURN Auto Discovery handling #941

fluffy: we need to figure out how to get credentials

Misi: who needs to get credentials? Who has the control of the TURN server? What TURN servers to use?
... the WebRTC stack could create list of closest STUN servers, discovery
... sent back to app which could then obtain credentials somehow
... Harald thinks this should be a separate service/api outside webrtc

fluffy: anycast already works

Misi: if you need different credentials per server rather than domain.
... important to find TURN server closest to client

fluffy: if you allow JS to run this, you've revealed the location of the person by revealing closest server

stefanh: out of time

<vivien> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jib to provide PR to clarify MUST NOT [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: People should review permissions/131 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: People should review PR 421 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: stefanh to email specific people to review 714/PR 776 - STUN/TURN OAuth Token (cont’d) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: taylor-b to update PR to add "" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html#action05]

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.148 (CVS log)
$Date: 2016/12/13 13:36:22 $