20:52:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webrtc
20:52:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-irc
20:52:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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20:52:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be RTC
20:52:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
20:52:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Real-Time Communications Working Group Teleconference
20:52:21 <trackbot> Date: 12 December 2016
20:53:39 <jib> jib has joined #webrtc
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20:59:29 <vivien> present+ Vivien_Lacourba, Beranrd_Aboba, Dan_Burnett, Jan-Ivar, Misi, Taylor_Brandstetter
20:59:46 <dom> s/ranrd/rnard/
20:59:46 <vivien> Present- Beranrd_Aboba
21:00:00 <dom> present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
21:00:31 <stefanh> stefanh has joined #webrtc
21:02:49 <vivien> Slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1omYdWvPNINE5Mhj6mreI587_GYffW_3fXZbuZ2sygZI/edit
21:02:54 <sherwinsim> sherwinsim has joined #webrtc
21:03:23 <taylor-b> taylor-b has joined #webrtc
21:03:25 <vivien> vivien has changed the topic to: WebRTC Virtual Interim today at 21:00 UTC https://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/December_12_2016
21:04:30 <ShijunS> ShijunS has joined #webrtc
21:05:53 <vivien> present+ Mandyam, Patrick_Rockhill, Sherwin_Sim, Shijun_Sun, Simon, StefanH
21:05:58 <dom> ScribeNick: jib
21:06:25 <vivien> Topic: Issue 350: New permission definitions are wrong (Jan-Ivar)
21:06:46 <vivien> -> https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/pull/350  RTCRtpSender support objects -> interfaces #350
21:07:58 <vivien> -> https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-main/issues/350  New permission definitions are wrong. #350
21:08:17 <jib> jib: jib People should review PR 421
21:08:34 <dom> -> https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-main/pull/421  Add Privacy Indicator Requirements #421
21:09:40 <vivien> [I have just fixed the links to point to the right repo]
21:10:25 <jib> https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-main/pull/421
21:10:43 <fluffy> fluffy has joined #webrtc
21:10:52 <jib> preview link https://rawgit.com/jan-ivar/mediacapture-main/9551c1c63274ca8ad6d3fcb931faa69cd55dc01b/getusermedia.html#privacy-indicator-requirements
21:11:15 <jib> https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-main/pull/421
21:11:22 <sherwinsim> "ACTION: <name> to <do something> - [due <when>]"
21:11:22 <jib> preview link https://rawgit.com/jan-ivar/mediacapture-main/9551c1c63274ca8ad6d3fcb931faa69cd55dc01b/getusermedia.html#privacy-indicator-requirements
21:11:43 <jib> ACTION: People should review PR 421
21:11:43 <trackbot> Error finding 'People'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/users>.
21:12:58 <jib> ACTION: People should review permissions/131
21:12:58 <trackbot> Error finding 'People'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/users>.
21:13:45 <jib> Topic: Issue 387
21:14:24 <jib> jib: I think we are good on this one
21:15:58 <jib> Topic: Issue 403
21:16:49 <vivien> (Shijun talking)
21:16:54 <jib> Bernard: This is solved by PR412.
21:16:55 <jib> jib: agree
21:17:13 <jib> shijun: agree
21:17:40 <jib> Topic: Issue 414
21:18:27 <dom> -> https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-main/issues/414 Devicechange events when not focus - permitted or forbidden?
21:18:36 <vivien> present+ Cullen_Jennings, Varun_Singh
21:22:22 <jib> Shiju: ok for jib to add clarifying text about MUST NOT in a pr
21:22:29 <jib> ACTION: jib to provide PR to clarify MUST NOT
21:22:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-121 - Provide pr to clarify must not [on Jan-Ivar Bruaroey - due 2016-12-19].
21:23:02 <jib> Topic: Issue 417
21:24:31 <dom> -> https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-main/issues/417 result of enumerateDevices when there is no origin
21:25:52 <jib> Shijun: I think it's ok to leave spec as is
21:26:34 <jib> Topic: Issue 952/PR953
21:27:34 <jib> Bernard: issue is it stops immediately, but doesn't stop rendering immediately (?)
21:27:56 <jib> stefan: this works for me
21:28:04 <jib> bernard: next is example 4
21:31:22 <jib> Bernard: rewrite to use setRemoteDescription, or [something else]
21:31:26 <jib> fluffy: how to stop sending packets?
21:32:03 <jib> Bernard: I think the right way to stop is replaceTrack with null
21:32:28 <jib> add example to show that
21:32:38 <jib> and second example to use setRemoteDesciption
21:33:15 <jib> fluffy: rtcp and ice consent still happen
21:33:28 <jib> taylor: replaceTrack null is better
21:33:37 <jib> Bernard: next is example 5
21:33:58 <jib> ... add some context
21:34:11 <jib> ... example 6 is response to example 5 (off of hold)
21:34:41 <jib> ... instead of replaceTrack null, bring back a sending track, like a mic track
21:35:06 <jib> stefan: looks good
21:35:17 <jib> Topic: 714/PR 953
21:35:29 <jib> Topic: 714/PR 776
21:37:04 <vivien> s;Topic: 714/PR 953;;
21:38:39 <vivien> -> https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/issues/714  STUN/TURN OAuth token auth parameter passing #714
21:39:09 <jib> stefan: think we need justin and ekr before we can decide
21:40:52 <jib> fluffy: leans toward 2 and 3
21:41:29 <vivien> [We are discussing the 3 proposed options listed at https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/issues/714#issuecomment-260009020 ]
21:42:56 <jib> stefan: discuss later and on list
21:43:05 <jib> ... and in issue 714
21:43:24 <jib> misi: next slide
21:46:33 <jib> stefan: Please review issue 714/PR 776 - STUN/TURN OAuth Token (cont’d)
21:46:52 <jib> ACTION: stefanh to email specific people to review 714/PR 776 - STUN/TURN OAuth Token (cont’d)
21:46:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Email specific people to review 714/pr 776 - stun/turn oauth token (cont’d) [on Stefan Håkansson - due 2016-12-19].
21:47:14 <jib> Topic: Issue 760/Issue 726/PR 968: Adding ufrag to candidates, and ufrag+mid to end-of-candidates (Taylor)
21:47:41 <jib> taylor: next slide
21:48:37 <vivien> present+ Peter_Thatcher
21:49:58 <jib> jib: maybe "" instead of null
21:50:34 <jib> fluffy: like the idea. "" better
21:51:16 <jib> ACTION: taylor-b to update PR to add ""
21:51:16 <trackbot> Error finding 'taylor-b'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/users>.
21:51:22 <jib> everyone agrees
21:52:03 <vivien> (now on slide 31)
21:52:11 <jib> Topic: Issue 849: AllowUnverifiedMedia RTCConfiguration Property 1/2 (Fluffy)
21:54:10 <jib> fluffy: propose a system where we can deal with media before we have its fingerprint. marked as unverified. torn down if not a match later
21:54:28 <jib> ... the signaling latency causes clipping on these hellos otherwise
21:55:16 <jib> ... allow a receiver track to be hooked up before fingerprint arrives
21:55:25 <jib> --- an optional thing, some way to do this
21:56:12 <jib> pthatcher: security issues with this, make it time bound. knowing that there isn't a long term mim
21:56:27 <jib> .... late in the game. don't want to spend time around sec issues that could delay spec
21:56:43 <jib> fluffy: no problem with time bound e.g. 1/2 second.
21:57:07 <jib> .... was in spec before, got accidentally removed?
21:57:48 <jib> ... playing out (or buffering?) media before it had a fingerprint
21:58:04 <jib> ... buffering requires speeding up audio
21:58:25 <jib> ... and also has audio artifacts, at the time when echo cancellers are training. buffer bad
21:59:05 <jib> ... caused by delay in signaling path
21:59:57 <jib> ... people expect being able to say hello as soon as they connect
22:00:33 <jib> pthatcher: could this be solved by delaying the user perception of when call is picked up?
22:00:57 <jib> fluffy: this is on receiver when they click answer, they want to say hello immediately
22:03:22 <jib> stefanh: could PRANSWER be used?
22:03:46 <jib> fluffy: privacy thing you run into. yes you could use that to some degree
22:04:02 <jib> Bernard: could be bad in video too if you lose a key frame
22:04:22 <jib> fluffy: buffering works well for video. hard to implement
22:05:16 <jib> Bernard: it's a real problem we've encountered
22:05:27 <jib> stefanh: I don't see a solution. quite a bit of work
22:06:06 <jib> fluffy: allow transceiver to wire up instead of error. (apps would need to explicitly wire this up)
22:07:52 <jib> fluffy: simple spec change. ease up on RFC 4572 Section 6.2
22:08:01 <jib> ... add time limit
22:08:38 <jib> pthatcher: trade-off: spec work, any security issues?
22:09:03 <jib> Bernard: video codecs are complicated. inject w/buffer overflow etc.
22:09:30 <jib> fluffy: still need ice credentials. Alice was willing to take media from connection
22:10:52 <jib> stefanh: don't we need an API for opt-in?
22:11:07 <jib> pthatcher: real issue is security issue
22:11:42 <jib> Bernard: ssl implementation may not let me do this
22:13:22 <jib> pthatcher: don't want to spend a lot of time on it, and make sure it's optional. Browser doesn't have to implement it if there's a concern.
22:13:27 <jib> ... ok with fluffy making a PR
22:14:25 <jib> Bernard: write up something to give to security people to consider
22:14:52 <jib> Topic: Issue 921: currentRemoteDescription.sdp - does it need to match the last SDP set via setRemoteDescription? (Bernard)
22:15:44 <jib> Bernard: proposal to add text to explicitly say set SDP when read back may be different
22:16:47 <jib> stefanh: great
22:17:08 <jib> Topic: Issue 924: Remove legacy getStats API?
22:17:22 <vivien>  /me notes that even if Harald is not present Varun is on the call
22:17:25 <jib> jib: jib I support this
22:17:32 <jib> bernard: me too
22:17:37 <jib> stefanh: lets do it
22:18:00 <jib> Topic: Issue 945: setParameters changing simulcast parameters (Bernard)
22:19:32 <jib> pthatcher: we could not add simulcast streams after addTransceiver
22:20:10 <jib> ... In favor of saying you pick how many you want when you call addTransceiver
22:20:17 <jib> fluffy,taylor: agree
22:21:14 <jib> Bernard: people won't cry as they can ask for the max up front
22:21:35 <jib> ... then inactivate them if you wanted less
22:21:53 <jib> Topic: Issue 941: STUN/TURN auto discovery handling (misi)
22:25:28 <jib> fluffy: we need to figure out how to get credentials
22:25:47 <jib> Misi: who needs to get credentials? Who has the control of the TURN server? What TURN servers to use?
22:26:11 <jib> ... the WebRTC stack could create list of closest STUN servers, discovery
22:26:52 <jib> ... sent back to app which could then obtain credentials somehow
22:27:13 <jib> ... Harald thinks this should be a separate service/api outside webrtc
22:28:54 <jib> fluffy: anycast already works
22:29:33 <jib> Misi: if you need different credentials per server rather than domain.
22:30:22 <jib> ... important to find TURN server closest to client
22:30:52 <jib> fluffy: if you allow JS to run this, you've revealed the location of the person by revealing closest server
22:31:22 <jib> stefanh: out of time
22:31:35 <fluffy> fluffy has left #webrtc
22:41:59 <vivien> trackbot, end meeting
22:41:59 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
22:41:59 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Vivien_Lacourba, Beranrd_Aboba, Dan_Burnett, Jan-Ivar, Misi, Taylor_Brandstetter, Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, Mandyam, Patrick_Rockhill,
22:42:02 <Zakim> ... Sherwin_Sim, Shijun_Sun, Simon, StefanH, Cullen_Jennings, Varun_Singh, Peter_Thatcher
22:42:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
22:42:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-minutes.html trackbot
22:42:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
22:42:08 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-actions.rdf :
22:42:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: People should review PR 421 [1]
22:42:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-irc#T21-11-43
22:42:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: People should review permissions/131 [2]
22:42:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-irc#T21-12-58
22:42:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jib to provide PR to clarify MUST NOT [3]
22:42:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-irc#T21-22-29
22:42:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: stefanh to email specific people to review 714/PR 776 - STUN/TURN OAuth Token (cont’d) [4]
22:42:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-irc#T21-46-52
22:42:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: taylor-b to update PR to add "" [5]
22:42:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-webrtc-irc#T21-51-16