See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: nikos
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kkqzcxY53h7liRYppLSSFG2sjaJ8V8TCP5rWLZK0AxA/edit?usp=sharing
nikos: We have feedback from MS,
Google, and FireFox
... it's not very promising. Lots of 'don't support'
... I would like to get some context - is this we won't ever
support, or we don't have time to work in the next year
Tav: I think I'm going to end my
involvement. This is basically nothing
... InkScape will probably move away from SVG too
shepazu: Just because Microsoft won't implement things, doesn't mean we won't get other implementations
AmeliaBR: As you said Nikos, we
need to get clarification if this is just this year or
ever
... certainly not supporting text in shape is rather strange
when some browsers already support shape-text in css
shepazu: not supporting text-orientation? That's weird
AmeliaBR: that's already been fully implemented in places
Tav: yeah I guess it should be
clarified. But this basically says SVG 2 is dead as far as I
can tell
... there's really almost nothing in here
AmeliaBR: it looks like they've
gone through and marked what they are actually working on
... I think text-transform is already supported in all browsers
and has been marked as a X
nikos: Seems like next stage is to have a discussion with the people who gave feedback
AmeliaBR: The problem we have is
the people who are representatives are not the people who use
or implement SVG
... we see it on GitHub where the people filing issues are not
the people who are representatives
<stakagi> We are now developing to implement the implementation of vector-effect and embedded content to firefox.
AmeliaBR: having people who are
graphically involved with the authoring process is important
for understanding the pain points, etc
... it needs to be said, without browser support for advanced
SVG. Is the SVG spec naturally going to fork? Is there still a
desire for an open format for vector graphics?
... if you can't use those vector graphics in web sites?
... We would basically need specialised graphics software -
Adobe and possibly others, to get involved
... is there support for going ahead with standardisation of a
version of SVG with advanced graphical features?
... and is there enough support in the W3C to continue
that?
... or is SVG as an advanced graphics language dead? And all
that is useful at this point is to standardise it as it is
currently supported in web browsers
... and clean up cross browser incompatibilities without adding
new features
nikos: My feeling is that you would be looking at a different set of W3C members to support SVG as a general open format for vectors
Tav: I had an interesting discussion with someone - was talking about a mesh gradient poly fill in Canvas. He noted that Canvas has great support and could see where SVG is hitting a wall
shepazu: The browsers have for a
long time wanted to reduce features and optimise for polyfills
and script implementation of features
... their attitude towards SVG seems to reflect taht
... I heard discussions about this at TPAC. They were oblivious
to the fact that without script none of these features
work
... and all these features using script reduces performance
client side
... and the fidelity and ability of the language
... I'm very disappointed by these results
... To be frank, I don't think they're thinking very deeply
about the problems on the web. Developers rather than browsers
are leading the way
nikos: The things the browser vedors seem to want to work on are based on what the engineers want and the code they know well and that's pretty sad
Tav: In terms of manpower. Where are we? We have two people leaving at the end of the year.
shepazu: W3C will put a staff contact on if there's interest from the browsers in getting the cleaned up version of SVG 2 completed
nikos: I'd be willing to put in my own time if there's interest in new features and not just butchering the spec. There's little motivation for me to do that.
AmeliaBR: what I expect would happen is move SVG under CSSWG and the spec will be a tiny fraction of what we've been working on
shepazu: I'm not totally pessimistic. Think there's a chance for some CSS related features to be pushed forward.
nikos: Ok so let's talk about what our plan is now
shepazu: Tav has made it pretty clear what his plan is
Tav: I will definitely go ahead
and do SVG 2 text - the way I wrote it there's SVG 1.1
fallback
... so that will get done and will replace SVG 1.2 text
... mesh gradients are going to be released
nikos: Good. I think InkScape totally following the SVG spec is unnecessary. It should push ahead
Tav: It will - carefully
shepazu: If things are to move to
incubation. There's a possibility of doing some stuff in an
incubator group
... maybe it's time for developers to look at it from a
polyfill perspective and take control of SVG, because the
browsers don't seem to be leading on it
<stakagi> +1
Tav: I had problems with mesh gradients because there's no way to embed a canvs in an svg shape
shepazu: Think we could get traction with that because that's the direction they want to go in
Tav: I came across bugs in Chrome
and Firefox that blocked me
... haven't documented them yet - was going to bring them up
with the group
shepazu: When you get the chance, you should file some bugs
nikos: Houdini custom paint is
promising. I have a feeling it may not be powerful enough for
that sort of pixel bashing.
... It's something we should have a go at so we can provide
feedback
Tav: I can provide some topics for next week if we want to talk about this
nikos: Ok. It's worth documenting
them
... Let's call the meeting there
RRSAgent: make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.148 of Date: 2016/10/11 12:55:14 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: nikos Inferring ScribeNick: nikos Present: nikos stakagi AmeliaBR Tav shepazu Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2016Dec/0002.html Found Date: 08 Dec 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/12/08-svg-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]