<Kim> M4 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md

<Kim> M10 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md

<scribe> scribe: Detlev

<Kim> M4 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md

<patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md

Kim; lets continue work on M4

Patrick: M4 SC plugs hole in current WCAG SC - covers situation where kb-operated environments may have problem when AT 'steals' keyboard events
... AT may intercept keystrokes and not let it get to JS
... Keyboard with AT (that remaps key input)
... (reads / presents contents of proposed SC
... Manual test using KB with AT on and see if everything works

Kim: Can text be simplified?

Patrick: makes note

Kim: what is the solution?

Patrick: work with focusable controls, use events like blur
... Avoid general keyboard commands
... Will look at adding to the description to make it clearer
... Other issues with keyboard commands fall within other proposed SCs so it is better to keep it specific - the WG may merge it wqith others and that could change the name

Kim: Are there more techniques related to this?

Patrick: A failure technique could be appropriate, with remedies / alternatives

Marc: Likes SC

<Kim> M10 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md

Next steps and schedule

Kim: Discussing sensors SC (M10)

Patrick: covers specific sensor inputs like tilt, orientation, pressure, shake
... This is about active inputs

KIM. so functionality should be provided also in some other way

Patrick: Ability of users to make use of sensors may be limite so functionality should be triggerable by some other method
... Use cases: mounted tablet, mobile in hands-free cradle, etc

Kim: We should have an example also in M4

Marc: Examples wil be important to make that easy to grasp - maybe already i the description section
... what sensores are covered?

Patrick: Fairly open - others may arrive

Marc: is proximity included

Patrick: Sensing that phone is close to your head would be an example for proximity

Marc: Looking to include sensore / applications that are yet to be developed

Patrick: Lighr sensor might work to cover proximitiy

Shadi: My phone changes brightness acc. to ambient light

Patrick: That's probably not an active input
... But enabling user to overwrite sensor could still be useful

Kim: Suggest editorial change

Patrick: Testability is difficult - discovering if any additional sensors do something

Kim: The author would know if sensors do things, the auditor may be made aware of it

<shadi> [[without relying on the sensors alone]]

Detlev: any limits on what counts as alternative

Kim: Finding a deleted item in a file system would not quailfy as the shake undo
... Undo is a discrete one stop action - so wouldn't a button that does the same thing be the equivalen`?

Patrick: Shake is a shortcut

Kim: No it is a speciifc function not a shortcut

David: entering call

<David_> test

<Kim> M10 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md

<patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: arguing that the discussion we're having is "does iOS mail's undo function pass this SC we're proposing" which is a slightly separate discussion to the actual merits of this SC

Patrick: Alternative could be button, menu option or control - no hard technique thart should be required

David: Reminds of language of 2.1.1 All functionality can be operated...
... would we describe change of orientation of page as 'function'?

Patrick: Example like shooting by tilting, changing orientation to trigger something

<David_> functionality processes and outcomes achievable through user action

<David_> that is the WCAG definition

Kim: Another use case might be putting device upside down to change position of mic

<David_> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#functiondef

<David_> All functionality of the content is operable without requiring specific device sensor information.

Kim: Screen orientation - a recorder might change if you turn it upside down (so it corrects)

Patrick: A functional change would be changing recording functionality if you change orientation
... There wil be grey areas - we should be fine for now

David: Suggests wording "All functionality of the content is operable without requiring specific device sensor information."

Patrick: Might be confusing to talk about functionality of content - is there other functionality?

Kim: Keept it short and snappy

Patrick: Will leave wording detaisl to larger WG

+1

David: Boneyard needed?

Patrick: Minutes

Kim: Closes meeting

<Kim> Note: Patrick will email the links to M4 and M10 to the list after he makes today's changes.

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Detlev
Inferring ScribeNick: Detlev
Present: patrick_h_lauke Detlev Kim Patrick David Marc
Regrets: jeanne Henny Chris Allen Jatiin
Found Date: 06 Oct 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/10/06-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: