14:52:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
14:52:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/06-mobile-a11y-irc
14:52:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:52:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:52:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:52:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:52:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:52:50 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2016
14:53:00 <Kim>  chair: Kimberly_Patch
14:53:34 <Kim> Agenda + Continuation of SC review - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/tree/gh-pages/SCs , https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements
14:53:36 <Kim> M4 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md
14:53:37 <Kim> M10 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md
14:53:39 <Kim> Agenda + Next steps and schedule
14:59:19 <jeanne> regrets+ jeanne
14:59:23 <Kim> Regrets+ Henny, Chris
14:59:56 <laura> laura has joined #mobile-a11y
15:02:54 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
15:07:02 <Detlev> scribe: Detlev
15:07:21 <patrick_h_lauke> patrick_h_lauke has joined #mobile-a11y
15:07:28 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
15:07:28 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Continuation of SC review - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/tree/gh-pages/SCs ,
15:07:30 <patrick_h_lauke> present+ patrick_h_lauke
15:07:31 <Zakim> ... https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements" taken up [from Kim]
15:07:42 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y
15:07:51 <Detlev> present+ Detlev
15:08:04 <Kim> M4 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md
15:08:05 <patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md
15:09:13 <Detlev> Kim; lets continue work on M4
15:10:46 <Detlev> Patrick: M4 SC plugs hole in current WCAG SC - covers situation where kb-operated environments may have problem when AT 'steals' keyboard events
15:11:15 <Detlev> ...AT may intercept keystrokes and not let it get to JS
15:12:01 <Detlev> ...Keyboard with AT (that remaps key input)
15:12:35 <Detlev> Patrick: (reads / presents contents of proposed SC
15:13:54 <Detlev> Patrick: Manual test using KB with AT on and see if everything works
15:14:01 <Detlev> q+
15:14:30 <Detlev> Kim: Can text be simplified?
15:15:14 <Detlev> Patrick: makes note
15:15:16 <Detlev> Kim: what is the solution?
15:16:05 <Detlev> Patrick: work with focusable controls, use events like blur
15:16:28 <Detlev> Patrick: Avoid general keyboard commands
15:18:22 <Detlev> Patrick: Will look at adding to the description to make it clearer
15:23:37 <Detlev> Patrick: Other issues with keyboard commands fall within other proposed SCs so it is better to keep it specific - the WG may merge it wqith others and that could change the name
15:24:23 <Detlev> Kim: Are there more techniques related to this?
15:24:46 <Detlev> Patrick: A failure technique could be appropriate, with remedies / alternatives
15:25:46 <Detlev> Marc: Likes SC
15:26:30 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
15:26:30 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Detlev
15:26:45 <Kim> M10 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md
15:26:53 <Detlev> q-
15:26:56 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
15:26:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Next steps and schedule" taken up [from Kim]
15:27:27 <Detlev> Kim: Discussing sensors SC (M10)
15:28:46 <Detlev> Patrick: covers specific sensor inputs like tilt, orientation, pressure, shake
15:29:24 <Detlev> Patrick: This is about active inputs
15:29:46 <Detlev> KIM. so functionality should be provided also in some other way
15:30:44 <Detlev> Patrick: Ability of users to make use of sensors may be limite so functionality should be triggerable by some other method
15:31:27 <Detlev> Patrick: Use cases: mounted tablet, mobile in hands-free cradle, etc
15:32:12 <Detlev> Kim: We should have an example also in M4
15:33:05 <Detlev> Marc: Examples wil be important to make that easy to grasp - maybe already i the description section
15:34:00 <Detlev> Marc: what sensores are covered?
15:34:15 <Detlev> Patrick: Fairly open - others may arrive
15:34:27 <Detlev> Marc: is proximity included
15:35:09 <Detlev> Patrick: Sensing that phone is close to your head would be an example for proximity
15:35:36 <Detlev> Marc: Looking to include sensore / applications that are yet to be developed
15:36:11 <Detlev> Patrick: Lighr sensor might work to cover proximitiy
15:36:47 <Detlev> Shadi: My phone changes brightness acc. to ambient light
15:37:16 <Detlev> Patrick: That's probably not an active input
15:37:48 <Detlev> Patrick: But enabling user to overwrite sensor could still be useful
15:38:06 <Detlev> Kim: Suggest editorial change
15:39:26 <Detlev> Patrick: Testability is difficult - discovering if any additional sensors do something
15:40:27 <Detlev> Kim: The author would know if sensors do things, the auditor may be made aware of it
15:41:04 <Detlev> q+
15:41:35 <shadi> [[without relying on the sensors alone]]
15:43:59 <Detlev> Detlev: any limits on what counts as alternative
15:44:44 <Detlev> Kim: Finding a deleted item in a file system would not quailfy as the shake undo
15:45:29 <Detlev> Kim: Undo is a discrete one stop action - so wouldn't a button that does the same thing be the equivalen`?
15:45:44 <Detlev> Patrick: Shake is a shortcut
15:46:13 <Detlev> Kim: No it is a speciifc function not a shortcut
15:47:18 <Detlev> David: entering call
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15:47:33 <David_> test
15:47:39 <Kim> 	M10 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md
15:48:21 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: arguing that the discussion we're having is "does iOS mail's undo function pass this SC we're proposing" which is a slightly separate discussion to the actual merits of this SC
15:49:48 <Detlev> Patrick: Alternative could be button, menu option or control - no hard technique thart should be required
15:50:40 <Detlev> David: Reminds of language of 2.1.1 All functionality can be operated...
15:52:22 <Detlev> David: would we describe change of orientation of page as 'function'?
15:53:07 <Detlev> Patrick: Example like shooting by tilting, changing orientation to trigger something
15:53:27 <David_> functionality processes and outcomes achievable through user action
15:53:39 <David_> that is the WCAG definition
15:53:44 <Detlev> Kim: Another use case might be putting device upside down to change position of mic
15:53:57 <David_> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#functiondef
15:55:32 <David_> All functionality of the content is operable without requiring specific device sensor information.
15:55:39 <Detlev> Kim: Screen orientation - a recorder might change if you turn it upside down (so it corrects)
15:56:15 <Detlev> Patrick : A functional change would be changing recording functionality if you change orientation
15:56:51 <Detlev> Patrick: There wil be grey areas - we should be fine for now
15:57:48 <Detlev> David: Suggests wording "All functionality of the content is operable without requiring specific device sensor information."
15:59:03 <Detlev> Patrick: Might be confusing to talk about functionality of content - is there other functionality?
15:59:13 <Detlev> Kim: Keept it short and snappy
16:00:10 <Detlev> Patrick:  Will leave wording detaisl to larger WG
16:00:16 <Detlev> +1
16:00:36 <Detlev> David: Boneyard needed?
16:00:43 <Detlev> Patrick: Minutes
16:00:59 <Detlev> Kim: Closes meeting
16:03:07 <Kim> Note: Patrick will email the links to M4 and M10 to the list after he makes today's changes.
16:03:31 <patrick_h_lauke> patrick_h_lauke has left #mobile-a11y
16:03:55 <Kim> Regrets + Allen, Jatiin
16:04:21 <Kim> Present+ Kim, Detlev, Patrick, David, Marc
16:06:27 <Kim>  rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/06-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim
16:10:51 <Kim> Regrets- Allen, Jatiin
16:16:17 <Kim>  rrsagent, bye
16:16:17 <RRSAgent> I see no action items