SV_MEETING_TITLE -- 20 Sep 2016

<fabgandon> Hi, I'm Fabien Gandon, AC Rep. of Inria, http://fabien.info

<mountie> https://www.w3.org/2016/04/blockchain-workshop/

doug presents the workshop report

interesting outcomes, some things missing. around 100 people there. We shouldn't limit our work here to what was the outcome there.

<mountie> https://www.w3.org/2016/04/blockchain-workshop/report.html

Un conference style, breakout groups, what are the things we can work on. We won't go through them today but please read

Digital assets group was formed, IPLD is ongoing but may not be W3C work, we have Interledger,

Manu: next workshop?

marta: yes, but after we detail usecases

manu: there are two events Rebooting Web of Trust and Internet Identity Workshop

doug: The Blockchain and browser solutions focused workshop may also be an idea

<jeff> Jeff Jaffe, W3C

<brunoj> Bruno Javary, Oberthur technologies

<mountie> Mountie Lee, PayGate

<kaorumaeda> Kaoru Maeda, Lepidum

<rmarques> Rodolphe Marques, BigchainDB

<JP> JP Abello - Nielsen & IoTC Privacy & Security

<jay> Jay Kishigami, NTT W3C AB

<chunming> Chunming Hu, W3C/Beihang, and Beihang University

<kiyoshi> Kiyoshi Tanaka, NTT

<stonecoldpat> Patrick McCorry, Newcastle University.

<Hyunjin> Hyunjin Shin, Mtreecare

doug: tomorrow we should have breakout and we will add to the agenda defining what should we do there

mountie: we need to update the mission statement on the website

Marta Piekarska, Blockstream. Security Architect & Standards, AC Rep

<kjetil> KJetil Kjernsmo, University of Oslo

<Tomohiro> Tomohiro Yamada from NTT

<boazsender> Boaz Sender from Bocoup

<fabgandon> Fabien Gandon, AC Rep. of Inria, looking at what aspects could be of interest to one of the 200 research teams of Inria ( http://inria.fr/ ) and personnaly interested in vocabularies for blockchain and linked data aspects ( http://fabien.info )

missing from the workshop: solid next steps, key stakeholders.

wee need to fix that and figure out where we overlap web and blockchain and how we can get the key stakeholders

We have a blockchain community group, with a mailing list and weekly telcos. If you are interested please join

Another one is interledger

<wseltzer> https://www.w3.org/community/blockchain/

Means of communication

<shepazu> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-blockchain/

<mountie> mailling list : public-blockchain@w3.org

<shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/blockchain

11AM Boston time, 5PM CET.

Telconferences

Thursday/Friday

1h long

manu: back to back with web payments.
... agent we splitting off too early - chainpoint?

doug - it was not our choice

manu: maybe we should advise people to join us.

<chunming> Is it ok to move 1-2 hours earlier, to make it easy for east Asian participants.

<shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/blockchain/wiki/agenda

we will send out agenda items and please add your own ^

<shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/blockchain/labels/agenda

if you have proposals send them on mailing lists and once it is more shaped then add to gihub. Github is less accessible.

we will poll the time

more communication channels? slack, rocket?

consensus is no.

depends on the number of work streams

if we have many paths then we might need more channels, but for now we need to focused things

doug: we need to focus on low hanging fruits of standardization and second is web and the Blockchain

is there a plan to align with other groups?

doug: we don't want to step on anybody's toes.
... whom we should be talking to is one of the key plans

<fluffypony> "the Blockchain" as in Bitcoin, right?

<dcosta72> I guess not. I guess blockchain as a technology enabler beyond bitcoin (blockchain 1)

<mountie> I think CG will be able to talk about Public Blockchain in Bitcoin, Private Chain, Side Chain and or other types of chains

<fluffypony> a blockchain is just a linked list with hashes.

if you know somebody you should tell us

<harry> You can always comment in IRC

<harry> if there's a response

dcosta72: yes correct

<harry> audio time is more limited than written IRC time.

f2f meetings

<fluffypony> Riccardo Spagni, Monero

is there a good reason to do a point to meet f2f

manu: do f2f after data collection on usecases

probably makes more sense to do f2f beginning next year

mountie - combine with some other group's meetings

mountie: should we always focus web and the Blockchain
... maybe since we have CG we can do wider scope

<mountie> weighted Centrality (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14TB-ika57VP45cATE8f-SfdEbAGklcZbYoQiyiExN0s/edit ) has non-web related issued.

<mountie> but hope to discuss in CG also

manu: lets not cut off discussion too early.

doug: web-relevant, not necessarily web-focused?

any work in standards depends on people who join

<shepazu> on people who join, and on people who actively participate and drive work forward

as Reuters: finance and Risk, tax and accounting, legal, contentent publishing, government sector.

scribe: hyperledger got lost on defining what the expectations are

<manu> Use cases we care about: 1) verifying if an emergency responder is currently authorized to be onsite

doug: : our expectations come from participants

<manu> 2) Checking to see if an IBAN number has been placed on a government watchlist

<harry> Does Hyperledger have a stable spec?

<harry> https://github.com/hyperledger/hyperledger/wiki

<harry> Or group of specs?

<manu> 3) Seeing if a digital coupon has already been redeemed (coupon fraud)

Maybe we need to define what the Blockchain means in scope of web

<manu> 4) Seeing if a car insurance claim has already been processed (fraud)

<manu> 5) Seeing if someone has the credentials (training/education) that they say they do

David: it is a backend technology on the web.

<manu> 6) Checking to see if a doctor has their license (or has been debarred)

<manu> 7) Ensuring that a refugee that is onboarded at one camp can recover their refugee status determination paperwork.

virgine: we started off with way too broad topic "identity" and had horrible time. Please define detailed use cases.

<mountie> one usecase proposed by Diseny : https://blockchaincg.atlassian.net/browse/BT-4

<rmarques> intellectual property on digital assets. Attribution, provenance and licensing

tracking data sharing on the web

<harry> intellectual property of digital asssets sounds kinda sketchy. I'm happy with labeling ownership, but don't want to go back into DRM swamp.

communication between things in web of things

<harry> So the report is classified by DHS but Manu has done a security analysis. Would love to see report.

dan:

there are so many groups that already work on the topics.

dan: no need for end to end solutions

<shepazu> d+ dan

marta: we should look at use cases and def not build e-t-e solutions but rather se how we can collaborate with other groups
... not sure how the use-cases from manu translate to standards

manu: they do, as you abstract from them and look at what APIs are missing and thats what you standarize

<jay> +1 marta

<harry> So, quick notes

<harry> In terms of WebCrypto

harry: what has been done already by the other groups?

<harry> what is obviously missing is that

<harry> Secp256k1 from WebCrypto

<harry> That was brought up 2 years ago and rejected by the WebCrypto WG

<harry> as they did not have it native already and did not see momentum to add it to their underlying libraries

<harry> That being said, that was two years ago so it could be brought up

<harry> Re Verified Claims and other usages of data formats

<harry> you'd have to show it could not be done with JWT and other well-known and deployed IETF work

<harry> JWT provides signatures over arbitrary JSON

<manu> harry, Verifiable claims allows both JWT and Linked Data Signatures - it's agnostic to the signature format

jay: We should focus more on the relevant use-cases. The scope will become too broad if we gather too many of therm

<harry> You'd also have to show some actual demand for Linked Data Signatures

<manu> harry, organizations in the group are using Linked Data Signatures - so we can show demand.

<harry> To my knowledge, there is no demand for linked data singatures

<harry> Can you list those organizations Manu?

<harry> Or are they secret/classified?

<manu> harry, Mozilla Open Badges - also Pearson and ETS are int he group

<harry> I don't see why those use-cases can't be addressed by just adding JSON-LD inside of JWTs

<harry> Having a normalization algorithm for digital signatures is what caused attacks in XML-DSIG, I see no reason to repeat a failed design pattern. If anything, people should be MORE careful with crypto/security in blockchain-based adversarial environments.

<harry> Obviously, you want to actually think through security aspects and not repeat IETF work.

<mountie> https://www.w3.org/2016/04/blockchain-workshop/report.html#commitments from Workshop

<fabgandon> IMHO criterias: before the interest and before the presence of the right people, comes the "is it relevant to Web and W3C"

<harry> USECASE: Access to bitcoin wallet securely in the browser for payments

<manu> USE CASE verifying if an emergency responder is currently authorized to be onsite

<manu> USE CASE Checking to see if an IBAN number has been placed on a government watchlist

<manu> USE CASE Seeing if a digital coupon has already been redeemed (coupon fraud)

<manu> USE CASE Seeing if a car insurance claim has already been processed (fraud)

<manu> USE CASE Seeing if someone has the credentials (training/education) that they say they do

<manu> USE CASE Checking to see if a doctor has their license (or has been debarred)

<manu> USE CASE Ensuring that a refugee that is onboarded at one camp can recover their refugee status determination paperwork.

<brunoj> USECASE verify a block is genuine inside a blockchain from a web application

<boazsender> Use Case: for wallets, we want some way to store and opporate on keys in a secure way in the client. I believe web cryto is working on this. Will the web crypto group's APIs suffice for wallets?

<harry> USECASE: Standardized REST API for blockchain access using normal JSON

<manu> +1 to the standardized REST API use case

<harry> (I suspect Interledger is up to that already, would like to know if they have a spec)

<jay> USECASE: rights management, trust management on WEB

<manu> USE CASE standardized data model for expressing primitives off of blockchain (returned when using a REST API)

<rmarques> https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/pull/90 interledger is working on an api but just for the connector

<shepazu> USE CASE (Marta) Things communicating within IoT

<jay> USECASE: WOT related BC components

<kjetil> manu: OK :-)

<dcosta72> For reference, hyperledger went through this same process: https://github.com/hyperledger/hyperledger/wiki/Use-Cases

<harry> HTTP REST stuff makes sense at W3C, re non-REST action, probably better scoped for IETF

<boazsender_> Use Case: for natural disasters/emergency skill systems: running a ledger with no "servers"- distributed networking. Network discovery/mngment from the browser, or maybe over BLE?

<manu> USE CASE Preventing fraud in the insurance industry (by registering insurance claims on a blockchain / shared database)

<harry> Although there's no in principle reason why W3C can't do non-HTTP stuff, but it would at least be polite to talk to IETF. I believe Interledger has begun discussing with them, it would be a good idea to follow them up.

<renato> USECASE: Blockchain use by the Music industry: https://medium.com/cuepoint/how-the-blockchain-can-change-the-music-industry-part-2-c1fa3bdfa848#.m462v6ppa

<shepazu> USE CASE (Marta) Tracking data that's shared on the Web, and measure who's accessing it

<boazsender_> Use Case: for natural disasters/emergency skill systems: running a ledger with no "servers"- distributed networking. Network discovery/mngment from the browser, or maybe over BLE?

<mountie> generated minute is not accessable.

<jay> USECASE: hyper system centralized and de-centralized DB(permissioned)

<dcosta72> USE CASE anonymised deterministic passport real-time status validation on travel

<mountie> USE CASE calculating Weighted Centrality

<manu> manu interested in standardized rest api, data model, vocabularies for accessing blockchains

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

20 Sep 2016

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Scribe.perl diagnostic output