<scribe> scribe: allanj

wayne: doesn't like blocks of text. wants all text

<laura> yes I will be

<laura> webex is having trouble starting

scott: blocks of text is a legacy of screen readers

Contrast(minimum) https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)

wayne: when wcag says captions, were they talking about multimedia captions.

<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)

jim: seems specific, is there a way to abstract the icons, form field borders, etc.

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)

Jim: testability, should be 4.5:1 not 3:1

awk: how are icons and graphics different.
... is there still exception for "logo"

laura: yes there should be.

awk: are we creating new, or rewording exiting

laura: should add exception clause.

awk: need to define icon vs graphics that convey important information.
... what is important information.

laura: see coga def

jr: rephrase text - the presentation of visual elements (such as: form field borders, graphics, focus indicators) ...

awk: to open is a problem also. lean toward define crisply. No ambiguity.

wayne: important graphic - uml diagram or any diagram, chart, etc.
... icon is our catch word for actionable graphics

awk: for diagrams and charts - start to be difficult to have multiple color at 4.5:1...what is the impact
... bar chart with 4 bars and colors with labels, ok
... line chart with 5 lines that intersect.

<erich_manser> could someone repost the Contrast link again, please? getting 'currently no text on page' msg

<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)

<JohnRochford> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)

<ScottM> "Primary foreground and Primary background color must meet requirements..."

<ScottM> and...

<ScottM> "adjacent colors must meet requirements"

awk: is there value in breaking apart the sc form controls, separate from graphics, etc.
... focus indicators at Level A
... pie charts 4.5:1 for adjacent colors is HARD. lots of push back

<ScottM> Borders can be used to change adjacent colors

<AWK> "Color is not used as the only visual means of conveying information, indicating an action, prompting a response, or distinguishing a visual element"

<laura> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/NewWCAGEditRec/results#xq9

jim: this is really close.

<laura> From survey: Having colored slices in a pie chart even with sufficient contrast fails 1.4.1 Use of Color. Please add a statement that the slices also need to have differing patterns or text to differentiate them from each other. For example, at a given luminosity, red and green slices can pass minimum contrast requirements however for someone with red / green color blindness they will not know which is red or green and any reference to the "green" slice in the [CUT]

<laura> would lead to confusion or loss of information.

awk: adress the delta. if 141 is ok, then need to change the understating document to make clear about charts and graphs

<JohnRochford> Source of quote from Laura: Maureen Kraft, IBM

awk: if you have a graphic, can't be color alone. doesn't say that the graphic has to meet contrast.
... poor contast would pass if there were visual patterns on the different colors

<ScottM> what if you can't tell the shape or pattern due to color contrast

jim: YIKES!! but true.

scott: easy to understand, but hard to word.
... when I test...if I take the image, make it b/w if you can still get meaning by shape or pattern, you are probably ok.

recap - pull out focus and form outline, add patterning to understanding document. add contrast of patterning to 1.4.3

<laura> 2.4.7: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2012/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120726/navigation-mechanisms-focus-visible.html

<ScottM> I like keeping related elements together

<ScottM> we should avoid stuffing too much into one SC

wayne: if you can't see the actionable image (left or right arrow) you don't know what you are doing

laura: operable, perceivable

awk: like idea "actionable" (icon - arrows, toobar - cut, copy, paste, etc. ) complex color icons may be difficult.
... outlook - reply button - a piece of the icon back arrow, and has words associated with it.

<ScottM> The icon isn't critical as there is text

<ScottM> and there are parts of the icon that are ok and unique

awk: if back arrow meets contrast, does the rest of the button have to meet contrast

<ScottM> Outlook has lots of color contrast issues :)

<ScottM> Skype has more though :)

wayne: to operate the page you need your focus, form field, actionalble icons.

<JohnRochford> Gotta go. Ciao everyone.

laura: will recraft contrast (minimum) to remove graphic.

awk: have a modest proposal for graphics to get some feedback from wcag. here is user need,

<scribe> ACTION: jim to write SC for informational graphics, color, visual pattern, etc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-84 - Write sc for informational graphics, color, visual pattern, etc [on Jim Allan - due 2016-09-15].

<ScottM> Poke the hive and see if the bees still live? :)

wayne: "a mechanism is available...", content puts obstacles in the way of the user making the information presentable.

<laura> I removed “graphics that convey important information” from https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)

<ScottM> Authors (or users) don't always know what to do or if it is possible

Action-72 Capitalization SC

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Capitalization

<laura> Notes on case conversion: http://rishida.net/blog/?p=1762

wayne: All caps is a big issue in blocks of text. a word here or there is not an issue.

scott: all caps not so much a low vision issue. no easy mechanism. can use style to make all caps. all lower case may be difficult to read.
... perhaps say - all style sheet to control capitalizaion of blocks of text.
... CamelCase would be difficult to read with out camels.
... perhaps AAA. should prevent capitalization adjustments in CSS. use capitalization as appropriate for the language.

<AWK> Are we saying that all-caps disproportionately affects LV users?

<AWK> If not, then this probably isn't a good SC candidate

wayne: some low vision folks do have problems with all caps.

<laura> I think I completed all of the Contrast (Minimum) changes.

Contrast (minimum)

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)

scott: why are we not including information icons. such as on dash boards.

jim: that should fall into the new SC on information and visual patterns, etc

scott: add actionable to short name.

<ScottM> lets let them hash on it for a while :)

<ScottM> woot woot

trackbot, end meeting

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: allanj
Inferring ScribeNick: allanj
Default Present: Shawn, Laura, JohnRochford, JimAllan, ScottM, Andrew(second_part), AWK, allanj, Wayne, Erich

WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: AWK, Andrew(second_part), JimAllan, JohnRochford, Laura, ScottM, Shawn, allanj)
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Present+ JimAllan, Andrew(second_part), allanj

Present: JimAllan JohnR Scott Wayne Laura Erich
Regrets: shawn
Found Date: 08 Sep 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-lvtf-minutes.html
People with action items: jim