See also: IRC log
<Birkir> Is the meeting password apg or aria-apg, I tried apg in the WebEx client and got an incorrect pasword error along with the CAPTCHA.
<MichielBijl> Scribe: MichielBijl
MK: not necessarily understand the request
MB: make APG more like MDN
MK: Not something we can do now
MB: So maybe something for the future?
MK: Yeah that could work
<mck> http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/#breadcrumb
MK: Breadcrumbs aren't necessarily hierarchical
AA: They usually are no?
MB: Think they always are
MK: Well some pages land in different sections or categories
MB: True, but would still be hierarchical
<Birkir> scribe: Birkir
MK: Breadcrumbs are most often
right above the main content of the page.
... Do we need the statement recommending ordered lists? WE
generally don't recommend specific constructs unless it is
particular to the interaction.
MB: I want to keep it in, but if you don't agree it is not necessarily necessary.
MK: Better to put the data structure in the examples.
Birkir: Most breadcrumbs I see use unordered list or div markup.
MB: Usually I see separators, and
the lists usually use a style of bullet:none.
... The 2014 WEbAIM survey asked users to rate breadcrumb
pattenrs, users prefered the ordered list one.
<MichielBijl> http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey5/breadcrumbs.htm
MK: Little difference between 1 and 2, except perhaps with Voiceover.
AA: More than twice as many people prefered an ordered list to an unordered one.
MK: WebAIM's breadcrumb examples use lists where CSS removes the bullets, which causes screen readers not to announce individual list items (though users can still navigate between them).
MB: I can accept removing this paragraph, rather than spending 40 minutes discussing it. ;)
MK: WE are not dropping the paragraph entirely, just removing the contents from the spec to the examples.
MB: So we agree to remove the paragraph?
Group agrees! MB will do the honors.
AA: Should we add the role="navigation"?
MB: Yes, put it as the first bullet under the "Aria roles and attributes" heading.
MK: We can create examples where breadcrumb widgets are implemented as a single tab stop. If so, refer to examples in the keyboard section.
Birkir: Perhasp not over recommend complex components on breadcrumb trails.
MK: For some scenarios (such as when we have a long breadcrumb list), a single tab stop might be beneficial. We should at least implement a plug-and-play Javascript example for a single tabstop breqdcrumb widget.
<MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/72
MB: Creates issue t#72 to create one.
MK: We are ready to close issue 17.
MK: There is a problem with the code page itself, unable to see the sourcecode.
AA: I think designrs will push back on having the current (last) item bold.
MB: does not have to be bold, but
should be styled different.
... Used a link here to use aria-current.
Birkir: Perhaps create a different breadcrumb widget where link to current page is not a link.
MK: Do we need multiple examples, I don't think so.
MB: Using aria-current gives the most information to the machine using it.
MK: We could sovle this by adding a note that if the last link (to current page) is implemented as static text, aria-current is not required.
Group agrees to add a note to current examples explaining the static text option. This should be added to the APG itself.
Note has been aded, courtessy of MB.
Onto issue 69 (item 3), the group had a detour.
<MichielBijl> MB: So about those breadcrumbs…
<mck> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/69
MK: Recommended change, drop the
tab roles for an accordion pattern.
... We got feedback about the orientation of the tabs.
<MichielBijl> Link to design pattern: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/#accordion
<mck> We are replacing the accordian design pattern with one that does not use the tab or tabpanel roles. So, there will not be a nee
MK: I was wroking on issues that An raised.
<MichielBijl> http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/#grid
Birkir: Asking about difference btween arrow keys wrapping in data grids vs. layout grids.
MK: Useful when dealing with data it is useful to know that we ahve reached the end of a row or column.
Birkir: Was thinking specifically about datepickers.
MK: datepickers are a little different, we need to document that in the datepicekr pattern.
<annabbott> Bryan Garaventa's examples: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/accessible-date-pickers-flexible-disabled-ranges-bryan-garaventa
MK: The introductary text indicates that the keyboard recommendations are flexible.
AA: Do we want to include Bryan's
examples.
... Don't we want to link date pickers and grids.
MK: We can when we get the
datepicker pattern done.
... Bryan's datepicker example is not APG ready, because it
uses an external library.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/aboe/above/ Found Scribe: MichielBijl Inferring ScribeNick: MichielBijl Found Scribe: Birkir Inferring ScribeNick: Birkir Scribes: MichielBijl, Birkir ScribeNicks: MichielBijl, Birkir Present: Michiel_Bijl Birkir AnnAbbott matt_king Regrets: Ian_Pouncey Jon_Gunderson Byan_Garaventa James_Nurthen Got date from IRC log name: 08 Aug 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/08/08-aria-apg-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]