See also: IRC log
<jemma> scribe:JaEun
<jemma> scribe: JaeunKU
<jemma> Topic
<jemma> llst attendees
<jemma> Testable Statements (Coordination) and test case Authoring
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=4
<jemma> rs: we need to break up testable statement, Michael
<jemma> mc: subgroup has been working on testable statement including Cynthia
<jemma> and other people
<jemma> cyn: made some progress and add info to wiki
<jemma> cyn: can you send me the location of actual statements, Rich?
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=4
<jemma> mc: Michael sent those
<clown> this url isn't working: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testsuites?testsuite_id=1 (ARIA 1.0)
<jemma> rs: testing each new feature in aria spec
<jemma> rs: go through the form and added info for expected results
<MichaelC> use https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=1
<clown> Okay, MichaeC, but that means the link on the testharness page needs fixing.
<jemma> cyn: I translated the test case into json format, open test harness, and look at testable statement, copy html content and I have to go back to container again, human reable stuff.
<fesch> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions_with_Tables
<jemma> cyn: curent items are pretty hard to make it machine readable format. we would like to have something machine readable with db
<jemma> rs: that is not possible for now.
<fesch> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Automated_Testing#Alternative_Draft_ARIA_Test_Case_Format
<jemma> fred: made a file which put all the test files and I am flexible to make any file type you need for testing
<jemma> mc: testable statement is expected result but it is not one to one relationship with test case.
<jemma> mc: test file lives in git hub
<jemma> cyn: test harness is only place I need to look at for automated testing? is that correct?
<jemma> mc: yes
<jemma> cyn: if there are things that is not going to automated testing, it is helpful.
<jemma> rs: it is only 5
<Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html#sotd
<jemma> mc: we can do create test case for new features in aria
<jemma> using index and other doc
<jemma> rs: we need to writing testable statementss for new or changed ARIA features
<jemma> js: how des this fit with automatically generated test?
<jemma> fred: they were basically copy and paste
<jemma> mc: it has been hard to use generator in filtering what is new and changed one.
<jongund> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Automated_Testing#Draft_ARIA_Test_Case_Format
<jemma> cyn: Microsoft is building testing demo cases using aira 1.1 (jason format) and runs aoutomatic tesitng, expecting human readable. - all the info is in the wiki.
<jemma> rs: something like object attribute is true?
<jemma> cyn: element is the id
<jemma> rs: I would like to see title is done at least
<jemma> rs:while cynthia is working on format, I can do title for test statement.
<jemma> fred: writing testable is possible by human readable ?
<jemma> rs: fred, will you put this in the wik?
<jemma> fred: it may need for svg too for the consistency
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Automated_Testing#Alternative_Draft_ARIA_Test_Case_Format
<jemma> fred: there are things pretty straight forward such as name calculation, etc
<fesch> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions_with_Tables
<jemma> fred: the link includes the result
<jemma> rs: these are also test cases?
<jemma> fred: yes
<jemma> rs; do you want keep this format?
<jemma> fred: yes, if we do have those, we can use perl script
<jemma> fred: whatever aam has can be captured in this kind of table.(In responding to Rich's question such as complex case?)
<jemma> jg: if we revise perl script a little bit, we can still use this structure
<jemma> fred: I think this is pretty human readable and can find errors easily
<jemma> rs:all up for this wikii?
<jemma> fred: all outliers can be taken care of separately but 90% can be taken care of.
<jemma> using this
<Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html#sotd
<jemma> rs: should we work on Michael's exit criteria?
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#changelog
<jemma> mc: we can refer appendix and Joannie was on top of updating this.
<jemma> rs: we need to break changelog up and assign works.
<jemma> jd: we need come up with net total first such as removing password role.
<jemma> jd: I don't think just dividing the work by date does not make sense. why don't we let John or John's people look over the net change?
<MichaelC> ACTION: cooper to do a ¨net change¨ list in preparation for test case development [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/04-aria-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2105 - Do a ¨net change¨ list in preparation for test case development [on Michael Cooper - due 2016-08-11].
<jemma> mc: we need to find net change first.
<jemma> mc: we would not do complete test for CR exit
<jemma> jg: so we would not do any testing for existing ones, only for changes?
<jemma> mc: yes for CR
<jemma> jg: I will send out doc so that Fred can look at it. It is pretty concrete template, so people in india does not need do work from the scratch
<jemma> jg: we hope to do comprehensive testing but we will more focus on testing for CR exit review
<MichaelC> action-2105: talk with Joanie about this
<trackbot> Notes added to action-2105 Do a ¨net change¨ list in preparation for test case development.
<clown> issue-1043
<trackbot> issue-1043 -- -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1043
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1043
<Rich> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-details
<jemma> rs: publishers want to hide detailes
<joanie> Joanie will work with Michael to come up with a list summarizing the changes we must test.
<jemma> rs: we need to change one sentence
<jemma> rs: make it "should"
<jemma> js: why was it "must" at first?
<jemma> js:they want to have "should" and have reverse relationship in a11y api. they can not have both.
<jemma> rs: Publishers want to hide details button, so put some visual indicator such as "more info" and let user turn on and off
<jemma> janina: not our battle, this is for non AT users
<jemma> rs: target is hidden and there is no mapping
<jemma> js: I would like to think about this.
<jemma> js: plus +0 for me ;-)
<jemma> rs:what do you think about this issue? do you want a survey?
<chaals> [is there any implementation of this?]
<jemma> rs: do you mean API mapping for "implementation"?
<Rich> [do you mean api mappings?]
<chaals> [I mean is there implementation of aria-details that I can test end-to-end]
<Rich> [charles, we need to create the api mappings]
<clown> there are implementations of <details>/<summary> which is one way to cash-in on aria-details, chaals
<Rich> [we have an example of that in the aria spec. using the <details>/<summary> pattern
<clown> [Example 17]
<Rich> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-details
<chaals> [that only applies to a particular form of the local case, where the details are in exactly the same place - except that in details/summary the details are hidden by default]
<Rich> [yes, but you do see a button when the cotent is hidden. publishers want to hide even that]
<chaals> [I'm not surprised they want to hide that]
<Rich> :-)
RESOLUTION: change "must" to "should" in aria details.
<jemma> rs: Joanie, can you change that?
<jemma> rs: do you want me to create the branch?
<jemma> mc: I would recommend to create the branch if it goes out for CFC
<Rich> ACTION: Rich create branch for the CFC for aria-details and the authors must going to an authors SHOULD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/04-aria-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2106 - Create branch for the cfc for aria-details and the authors must going to an authors should [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2016-08-11].
<jemma> rs: is there any other blockers for entering CR? any thing new, Joseph?
<jemma> js: nothing new since last week meeting.
<jemma> list attendees
<clown> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2014-November/001852.html
<clown> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2014-November/001853.html
<jemma> rs: when would you be able to publish the working draft?
<jemma> ms: I can start working on it tomorrow and may take two weeks or so.
<jemma> Chair: Rich_Schwerdtfeger
<jemma> s/if there are things that is not going to automated testing it is helpful./knowing that there are things that is not going to be part of automated testing would be helpful.
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