<scribe> scribe: Wayne

Hyphenation https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/8

<JohnRochford> Correct URL = https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/8

<allanj> proposed: A mechanism is available for users to turn hyphenation on or off.

<allanj> wayne: at large zoom, hyphen is an extra character

<allanj> john: hyphen is necessary to let folks know the word continues

<allanj> jim: ok with this wording

<JohnRochford> +1 to wording

<allanj> +1 to wording

RESOLUTION: Accept the wording for hyphenation.

Selectable https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/9

<allanj> proposed:

<allanj> For the visual presentation of blocks of text, a mechanism is available to achieve the following:

<allanj> line spacing can be selected by the user

<allanj> word spacing can be selected by the user

<allanj> letter spacing can be selected by the user

<JohnRochford> Correct URL = https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/9

<allanj> text justification can be selected by the user

<allanj> margins (blank space) and borders (including color, width, and style) can be selected by the user

<allanj> paragraph spacing can be selected by the user

<allanj> shawn: are all a same level?, ordering?, how specific do we need to get?

<shawn> ... e.g. much more specific in UAAG

<allanj> Jim: all at same level?

<allanj> wayne: depends on visual condition, some needs each of these

<allanj> shawn: is this a level A or AA or AAA for everybody

Shawn: Should we consider level. Is this one equal uint.

<allanj> john: justification is important for cognitive issues.

<allanj> john: justification should not be AAA should be AA

John: Text Justification is necessary for cognitive and lv

<ScottM> AAA is universally ignored

<allanj> wayne: don't see any at AAA,

<allanj> ... missing any one is a show stopper for someone.

John: Text Justification should be Level A because of the number of people influenced
... anything added to AAA is kiss of death.

<allanj> WCAG 2.1 Success Criteria https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria

<laura> WCAG 2.1 Success Criteria: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria

AllenJ: There is difficult if implementation.

<JohnRochford> My vote: text simplification = A, rest = AA

<JohnRochford> correction: justification, not simplification

<allanj> shawn: paragraph spacing might be AAA, really useful usability wise.

<allanj> ja: coga may have issues with para spacing

Shawn: Paragraph spacing may be Level AAA

<allanj> shawn: you don't have to know where para ends to be able to read.

Shawn: You don't have to see paragraphs diffeences?

Note: Shawn is devils advocate.

Scott: Take a double approach: Need to style consistently AA, To get more specific AAA

<allanj> Jim: any objection to keeping all together.

John: Objects to keeping them together. Justification must A. The rest can be AA.

Scott also objects.

<allanj> wayne: group spacing together?

<JohnRochford> +1 to group spacing together

<allanj> jim: letter, word, line, paragraph

<allanj> 1 - justification, 2 - spacing letter, word, line, para, 3 margins

<JohnRochford> +1

John: Justification should be A, the rest should be at least AA.

<allanj> ACTION: Jim create 3 SCs, justification, spacing (letter, word, line, para), margins [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/07-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - Create 3 scs, justification, spacing (letter, word, line, para), margins [on Jim Allan - due 2016-07-14].

<allanj> wayne: make all A, then wait for push back.

<allanj> shawn: or we are seen as not taking reality into account, and seen as not serious.

<allanj> shawn: low vision issue or coga issue. justification is not more important than spacing for LV

<allanj> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/index.html COGA SCs

<allanj> COGA proposes WCAG 1.4.8 should not be AAA (included justification)

<allanj> shawn: justification is not level A

<allanj> john: rivers of white is big issue. does think it prevents comprehension.

John: I believe that rivers of white prevent comprehension.

Shawn: Would slow comprehension.

<allanj> shawn: data on justification?

<shawn> ... in all but extremem edge cases

<JohnRochford> Example research = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing_studies

<allanj> Jim: perhaps make them all AA, gather data for justification of level

<allanj> shawn: coordinate with COGA, we think AA, they may think some other level. perhaps combined may be higher.

<shawn> +1 to start with AA and consider additional data, as well as later for cognitive & mobile, multiple disabilities

<laura> +1

<allanj> Task Force Exchange - all info about Task Force work - SCs, Gap Analysis, etc. https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Task_Force_Exchange

<allanj> Put data/research in LVTF SC issues https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues

<JohnRochford> Great conversation, but have to go. Ciao.

<allanj> wayne: these are level A, people are not finishing tasks.

<allanj> shawn: if justification is A by that definion, then line spacing is definitely A

<allanj> shawn: margins? what level?

<allanj> wayne: with tunnel vision its a level A issue

<allanj> shawn: line length vs margins. margins is spacing between stuff.

<allanj> jim: I use margins to change line length.

<allanj> shawn: margins is for separating blocks of text

Note: We need to make add line length an item.

<allanj> shawn: add "mechanism to change line length"

<allanj> shawn: margins is part of spacing. line length is separate

<allanj> wayne: interior block objects, and exterior to block objects. margins should be separate.

<allanj> wayne: make 4 SCs

allenj: There is a wiki exchange, for each task force..

Shawn: will put that up on the vision page.

<allanj> ACTION: create another SC mechanism for line length [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/07-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Error finding 'create'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/track/users>.

<allanj> ACTION: jim to create another SC mechanism for line length [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/07-lvtf-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Create another sc mechanism for line length [on Jim Allan - due 2016-07-14].

200% vs 1100% https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/5

<allanj> discussion thread: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Jul/0005.html

<allanj> wayne: if you linearize page, and in mozilla you can to go about: and change a setting.

<allanj> shawn: what about tables?

<allanj> laura: can make responsive tables.

<allanj> wayne: cell can fit on a screen, different from line.

<allanj> jim: per element reflow. tables and images no scrolling.

<allanj> shawn: table cell = block of text, not the table

<allanj> WCAG WG Wiki Page: Possible wording from Jason/David for LVTF re: zoom without horizontal scroll https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Possible_wording_from_Jason/David_for_LVTF_re:_zoom_without_horizontal_scroll

<allanj> jim: need a reference for 1100%

<allanj> wayne: should not be using %, should have characters per line

<allanj> may need to expand a block of text to include table cell

<allanj> scott: create a double AA upto a given size. and AAA for bigger. I use 400%, beyond I loose formatting, context, etc. beyond 400% I use AT. also beyond 8x may be time to use screen reader.

<allanj> ... question real world utility of 1100. need research. How many people? perhaps AAA for a narrow use case.

<allanj> ... asking for too much

<laura> David MacDonald: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2016JulSep/0077.html

<allanj> scott: comment in the thread discussion

<allanj> scott: limits. AA is x%, AAA is xx%. developers need limits.

<allanj> Scott: depending on content I am between 200-400. Occasionally I go to 600. always adjusting depending on what I am doing

<allanj> ... most LV folks I know are using some AT. mag built into most OS is very limited...and lots of issues with OS functionality.

<ScottM> hello?

<allanj> rssagent, make minutes

<allanj> jim: reading text (guttenberg) vs using a website functionally. what is proper size?

<allanj> ... define function

<scribe> ACTION: Wayne to contact 1100% source and create reading example [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/07-lvtf-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Contact 1100% source and create reading example [on Wayne Dick - due 2016-07-14].

<allanj> close item 3

<allanj> trackbot, end meeting

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Succeeded: s/justification does not level A/justification is not level A/
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Found Scribe: Wayne
Inferring ScribeNick: Wayne
Default Present: allanj, Shawn, Wayne, Scott, JohnRochford, Laura

WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: allanj, Laura, Scott)
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such as: <dbooth> Present+ 


WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: allanj, John, Shawn, Wayne, Scott, JohnRochford, Laura)
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such as: <dbooth> Present+ allanj, Shawn, Wayne, Scott, JohnRochford, Laura

Present: JohnRochford Laura Scott Shawn Wayne allanj
Regrets: AWK
Found Date: 07 Jul 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/07/07-lvtf-minutes.html
People with action items: create jim wayne

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