<scribe> scribe: fesch

mc: we are still getting comments on CfCs but I think they passed, Rich will take up
... any comments on CFCs?

jd: I don't understand what Rich's concern of password role is.... so it seems like we should not commit the password changes

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2016Apr/0032.html

jd: not sure what to do with CfC for aria-keyshortcuts - not sure whether to commit or not

mc: wait until Rich is back for clarification
... as far as password.... Rich mentions that we might change in ARIA 2.0.... don't have a problem with going ahead with commit on that... but you can wait on Rich if you want
... will put on list to ask Rich...

Decisions from last week

ACTION-2067 Write text to state the order of aria-owns ids wrt. the dom child order and sequential aria-owns ids

<MichaelC> action-2067?

<trackbot> action-2067 -- James Nurthen to Write text to state the order of aria-owns ids wrt. the dom child order and sequential aria-owns ids -- due 2016-05-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2067

<MichaelC> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0159.html

mc: James N isn't here, did submit on list

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0190.html

js: I responded and he responded back
... James hasn't responded back ....
... you could add aria-owns and the order didn't matter, now it says SHOULD and the order may matter

mc: James said he wouldn't make it a RFC SHOULD will reword

js: changes will require tests...

mc: we suggests a change ...

discussion on text...

<clown> If the DOM children should not be first then they should also be listed in aria-owns in the correct order.

js: the scenario is a mix of DOM children and aria-owns children...

mc: we avoid a lower case should ....

js: we could propose something and ask him...

mc: if he didn't like the text and we did a CfC he would have a week

jd: I can create a branch for the changes...

mc: are people comfortable with putting the change in a branch and get email confemation

RESOLUTION: accept JamesN proposal modulo discussed wording changes to remove a non-RFC2119 ¨should¨, which will be done in a branch for review and confirmation in the CfC

Automated testing

cs: can we do it later?

Other open issues and actions

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/17

js: last week Joanie and Matt discussed changes to Matt's text....

action-2039

<trackbot> action-2039 -- Matthew King to Update definition of aria-autocomplete -- due 2016-03-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2039

jd: I thought it went out for CfC
... need to leave action open until I merge

action-2044

<trackbot> action-2044 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Separate out text from role="presentation/none" so that a single location may be referenced in core-aam. -- due 2016-04-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2044

jd: I remember several concerns raised, leave open

js: I thought this one got through CfC...

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2016May/0043.html

mc: will talk with Rich about CfC format

jd: I thought folks had problem with the text

action-2068

<trackbot> action-2068 -- Michael Cooper to Address issue 1006 -- due 2016-05-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2068

bg: primary concern with treeitem and menuitem roles - where you can have supporting children with the same role
... doesn't differentiate between supported and not supported roles
... this is only and issue for a couple of the roles

<MichaelC> close action-2068

<trackbot> Closed action-2068.

action-2069

<trackbot> action-2069 -- Matthew King to Write proposal to resolve issue 1028 for the separator role -- due 2016-05-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2069

js: we talked about it on Tuesdays call, we assume it is done

jd: don't recall seeing a CfC for it

mc: putting on Rich list

action-2082

<trackbot> action-2082 -- Michael Cooper to Investigate having regular links to apg for each aria feature -- due 2016-06-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2082

mc: this is editorial, propose putting off for 3 months

<MichaelC> action-2082 due 3 months

<trackbot> Set action-2082 Investigate having regular links to apg for each aria feature due date to 2016-09-16.

Approval to publish ARIA 1.1 Working Draft?

mc: being careful on working draft - want it to be pseudo last call

<ShaneM> my stuff is done AFAIK

jd: I can prioritize focusing on merging and getting the spec out the door next week

mc: we have a week CfC...
... are folks comfortable with approving to publish a pseudo last call with ARIA 1.1 in it's current form

+1

<JF> +1

js: when does the CfC go out?

mc: we want a sense of the working group

bg: children presentational is a really big problem need to get it addressed

<clown> +1

<ShaneM> +1

<joanie> +1

<JF> +1

RESOLUTION: WG approves publishing ARIA 1.1 as pseudo-Last Call Working Draft; CfC to go out after Rich returns to give him opportunity to review; may add ednotes about open issues

Automated testing

cs: meeting tomorrow to talk about automated testing
... accProbe.... UIA, next steps... write platform specific piece...
... and to write a bunch of test cases....
... should be able to run the tests pretty soon

jd: I started the port to my platform

cs: keeping meeting small...

<MichaelC> ARIA test list

JF: I didn't get an invite and my folks didn't get an invite

cs: we can talk more about scoping tasks

shane: was just him and a few MS people

mc: need to start using test list
... if you have an interest in testing, make sure you are on the aria-testing email list
... if you are not on the list and want to be, let me know
... testing will become a bigger focus going forward

Children presentational redux

mc: do folks want to discuss now, I think it would be useful to discuss when Rich is back

jd: I looked at code of spinbutton... emailed apple developers.... got email back spin button children are exposed on the Mac (up/down buttons)
... thinks apple will object

cs: I can see that being a pattern

<clown> last week's resolution: "Add editorial note to option, treeitem, and spinbutton roles that their "children are presentational" status is provisional"

mc: we need to get stuff on record...

cs: may be waiting for CR

mc: that is why I would like a pseudo-last call

jd: I feel strongly enough about this, that I would object

mc: we want to get it in the minutes... other folks have gone on record that it should be

bg: I put it on list and no one replied to that
... if it is not a composite widget...

<Zakim> joanie, you wanted to say AGAIN that that it should become composite

mc: composite is an artifact of our taxonomy

jd: I think a spin button is a composite widget is and if we make this change, we make browsers non-compliant

bg: we could make it composite...
... any folks treeitem is undscoverable ...

mc: what I hear you saying is AT applies a meaning to composite widget and we did not intend for AT to do that
... I don't hear opposition to making spinbutton composite... these are both conversations after the spec
... that is the disconnect - you are trying to normalize and the rest of us are saying why does it matter

bg: it might work for spinbutton but the others are more complicated issue and may require change in ATs and not clear how that would work
... don't think we can do it in the next two weeks
... important to make clear which rules are supported

mc: would you mind taking an action about composite widget...

jd: can I make spinbutton a composite widget?

bg: I don't oppose that

<MichaelC> ACTION: bryan to propose content for composite role to describe the constraints that have been behind the children-presentational normalization effort [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2084 - Propose content for composite role to describe the constraints that have been behind the children-presentational normalization effort [on Bryan Garaventa - due 2016-06-23].

<Zakim> joanie, you wanted to propose I make spinbutton subclass composite

<MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-2084 with issue-1006

<trackbot> action-2084 (Propose content for composite role to describe the constraints that have been behind the children-presentational normalization effort) associated with issue-1006.

RESOLUTION: make spinbutton composite

mc: will still keep editorial note, spinbutton may drop out of the note

<joanie> action joanie to create a branch making spinbutton subclass composite

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2085 - Create a branch making spinbutton subclass composite [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-06-23].

mc: anything else on children presentational for now?

<joanie> trackbot, associate action-2085 with issue-1006

<trackbot> action-2085 (Create a branch making spinbutton subclass composite) associated with issue-1006.

mc: any additional agenda?

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/I can merge stuff next week/I can prioritize focusing on merging and getting the spec out the door next week/
Found Scribe: fesch
Inferring ScribeNick: fesch
Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Michiel_Bijl fesch MichaelC Janina JF Joseph_Scheuhammer Cynthia janina Bryan_Garaventa ShaneM
Regrets: Rich Léonie JamesN
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jun/0099.html
Found Date: 16 Jun 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: bryan

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