See also: IRC log
<scribe> agenda: this
<joanie> scribe: joanie
<clown> action-1533?
<trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Implement Webdriver automated accessibilty testing framework for testing ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI -- due 2016-05-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533
JD: I've set up my Windows 10
laptop and am following the instructions in the repo
README.md.
... I'm getting errors no matter which set of instructions I
follow.
... Cynthia, should I ask you or your colleague?
CS: Ask John.
JD: Will do, thanks!
CS: I think there's a meeting on
Thursday morning to discuss testing.
... With Jon Gunderson and others, I believe it is at 9AM
Pacific time.
JD: Works for me.
<clown> action-1686?
<trackbot> action-1686 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Drive mapping of aria-errormessage to aapis -- due 2015-07-23 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1686
<clown> action-1696?
<trackbot> action-1696 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts -- due 2016-06-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696
JD: I think we are stalled on this.
JS: I raised it again just because you asked to bring it up in a week.
JD: There is a Mozilla work week
going on in London.
... So Alex and Jamie are busy with that.
... And I'm waiting to hear back from Alex.
<clown> action-1698
<trackbot> action-1698 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose AXAPI mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-06-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698
JD: I'm waiting on this one until
I do the mapping for my platform.
... As discussed before I want to hear back from Alex.
... That said, I won't keep blocking AX API for ATK.
... So please make it due next week.
JS: Ok.
<clown> action-1706?
<trackbot> action-1706 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due 2016-06-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706
JS: Cynthia gave me a pull
request.
... I was going to pull it in, but then I heard from
Michael.
... At tomorrow's meeting, Michael is going to discuss how we
officially do pull requests.
... So I'm going to wait until tomorrow's meeting.
... Then this pull request will be my first try.
<clown> action-2065?
<trackbot> action-2065 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add this statement to the core-aam: “user agents are not expected to validate that the active descendant is a descendant of the focused container. “ -- due 2016-05-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2065
JS: While I was away, this action
came up.
... Cynthia wrote some stuff.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#document-handling_author-errors
JS: There's a need to add a
statement to the Core AAM about user agents not being expect to
validate this.
... I wrote back that there is already a statement in the Core
AAM regarding this.
... The URL is above.
... In section 6.2 (Joseph reads statement)
... The fifth item in the list (Joseph reads it)
... Is that sufficient?
CS: Let me read it again.
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/397
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/397/commits/698c8c0e42ab40e210dd47a2e9c0329fbb9aeb49
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-2065/aria/aria.html
<clown> "User agents are not expected to validate that the active descendant is a descendant of the focused container."
CS: What Joseph pasted should be sufficient.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-2065/core-aam/core-aam.html#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant
JS: The URL above is where the proposed change is.
CS: While it is somewhat
redundant, I think having it here is useful.
... When people are thinking about activedescendant, I think
they're more likely to look here.
... We could link back to the other part.
JS: We could do that.
... Anyone else have thoughts on this?
... I'm fine with including it twice and also linking to the
author error section.
BG: Fine with me.
JD: It might be worth adding a (code) comment by each statement that the text should remain aligned.
JS: It could be an editor's comment (they disappear when you do a snapshot).
JS: Correction. They are still
showing up.
... I'll ask tomorrow during the editor's call.
<clown> action-1739?
<trackbot> action-1739 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide all the missing atk/at-spi2 interfaces for joseph -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1739
JS: This action is about the
interfaces in ATK/AT-SPI2 that are relevant to roles.
... We include them for UIA, but not ATK.
... Looking at them, I realized something.
... We got rid of the prefixes.
JD: You can do that for everything but hyperlinkimpl, and maybe you can drop that one too.
JS: Rich is not here.
<clown> action-2056?
<trackbot> action-2056 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Coordinate the mappings for the various AAPIs of the enumerated aria-haspopup values -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2056
JS: I have incorporated Rich's
mapping for IA2 and ATK.
... I think I have UIA's in place as well.
... I wanted to show Rich the changes and verify they are
correct.
... But while we're here, the action got assigned to Joanie for
the AX API mappings.
... Touching base.
JD: No update.
... I will add it to my todo list.
JS: When Rich is back I'll probably bring it up again to verify the changes.
<clown> action-1732?
<trackbot> action-1732 -- Michael Cooper to Work on conformance section for mappings (note there is a section, but change id=conformance so respec picks up) -- due 2015-10-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1732
JS: I was doing some triaging of
all the actions during the past week.
... I came across action 1732.
... This has to be in the document apparently.
... It's assigned to Michael.
... I emailed him. He replied that he has notes on it.
... Michael will add it soon.
... Due date is October 14, 2015.
<clown> action-2076?
<trackbot> action-2076 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to MSAA/IA2 mapping of role="separator", when it is a widget (window splitter). -- due 2016-06-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2076
JS: I need some advice on this
one.
... I was supposed to research this.
... Sometimes it's not interactive; sometimes it is (like when
it's a window splitter).
... I went digging around.
<clown> "The object is used to visually divide a space into two regions, such as a separator menu item or a bar that divides split panes within a window"
JS: I got some documentation on
the ROLE_SYSTEM_SEPARATOR.
... (Reads above)
... The role is the same for both types.
<clown> IA2_ROLE_SPLIT_PANE
JS: IA2 doesn't have a role for separator at all.
<clown> "A split pane. A specialized panel that presents two other panels at the same time. Between the two panels is a divider the user can manipulate to make one panel larger and the other panel smaller"
JS: There is a split pane (defined above).
JD: We have that in ATK/AT-SPI2.
JS: So the split pane is the whole thing; not the splitter itself.
<clown> issue-1029?
<trackbot> issue-1029 -- Add mappings for interactive separator (window splitter). -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1029
JS: Ideas, or anyone know more?
CS: Is there an issue for this?
JS: Issue-1029.
<clown> action-2074
<trackbot> action-2074 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UIA mapping of role="separator", when it is a widget (window splitter). -- due 2016-06-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2074
CS: Action-2074 is for UIA.
JS: You said control type of thumb.
CS: I knew I found something.
JS: Do we have a thumb in
MSAA?
... Would you be fine with "thumb" Bryan?
BG: Oh goodness.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: If a user puts focus on a splitter, and hear's "thumb" or some such, and gives a percentage, isn't that enough?
BG: Isn't it a separator role on windows?
JD: My platform and a native app,
there is a keyboard shortcut to put focus on the window
spitter.
... Orca annouces it, and as the user moves it, orca announces
the percentages.
... It should implement the value interface, and SRs can speak
the changes in value.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
BG: During the APG call, we were
trying to figure out the whole separator pattern thing.
... There is no way to distinguish between the separator
element (static) and interactive separators.
... It's not clear in the implementation how you're supposed to
distinguish these.
... There is no way to convey what is being represented
there.
... In a non-visual way.
CS: Looking at the UIA documentation, the reason I chose thumb is that the docs specifically state that this role should be used for window resizers.
JS: What do you call the thumb on a scrollbar?
CS: I think it's part of the
scrollbar. But let me look.
... Yes, thumb is used in scrollbar as well.
... Sliders use thumbs as well.
JS: That's what I remember from GUI toolkits.
CS: We don't have a splitter
control type.
... But thumb says it can be used for window resizing.
BG: Understanding the use cases
and how to program them would be helpful.
... Are we talking about tabbing to a container which is
resizable using the arrow keys?
CS: That's one possibility.
... Another is like in Outlook when we have multiple panes
dividing the window.
JS: In HTML4... was it a
frameset?
... For lack of a better word, this thing is a separator that
divides a window into two parts.
... You can resize the panes without resizing the window
itself.
CS: And some apps update the
layout depending on the width/height of the pane.
... For instance, single line versus multiple line.
JS: Dojo has something like
this.
... You can Tab to it and then resize the panes with the arrow
keys.
BG: Anyone have a web example I can look at?
JS: Let me look for Dojo's.
CS: I think outlook.com has similar functionality.
BG: Having a concrete usecase will help.
JS: The Dojo example says it's
deprecated.
... And this doesn't seem to be keyboard accessible.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: A window splitter expoeses
the focusable state; and HR does not.
... a window splitter exposes a value interface; an HR
doesn't
... Isn't that enough to make the distinction between an
interactive window splitter and a static separator (HR).
action-2069?
<trackbot> action-2069 -- Matthew King to Write proposal to resolve issue 1028 for the separator role -- due 2016-05-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2069
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JS: Supposedly we have a pending
CfC for action-2069.
... He's indicated that this is largely editorial, and the
changes are targeted mainly towards authors.
... (Quotes from text from Matt)
... It sounds very similar to what Joanie said.
... So maybe nothing needs to be done. Well....
... There may still need to be mappings.
JD: There will need to be
mappings.
... In Cynthia's case (for UIA), if it has focusability and
values, it's a thumb.
... In my case, it needs to implement the value interface.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/call/call./ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie ScribeNicks: clown, joanie Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 14 Jun 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/06/14-aapi-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]