XForms Users Community Group Teleconference

25 May 2016


See also: IRC log


Steven, Alain, Philip, Erik


transform(): in particular the parameter passing


Steven: [summarised last week for Philip]

Erik: I don't have a solution yet.
... There are parameters to pass to the XSLT processor, and as inputs to the transformation
... in XPath3 you have more tools to do it (hashmaps in particular)
... in XPath2 we don't have maps (though you could implement them as an extension)
... so the options are limited
... we could use sequences, which give limitations
... another is to use XML documents (instances)
... which would make the transformation rather heavy
... building the instance would be heavy

Steven: But I see transformation as an alternative to submission, we send off a bit of XML, and we get a bit of XML back
... why can't we use the submission mechanism to support transformations?

Erik: Transformations do more than that.
... if we limit to sending on XML document and getting one back, it would be a subset of what you can do
... it wouldn't be compatible with XPath3

Steven: Well if it is a subset it would be compatible, but wouldn't cover XPath3

Erik: The attributes we have on submission are not relevant to XSLT
... instead of sending it to a resource we would send it to a transformation

\Steven: Yes

Alain: I am concerned about customers generating XForms. An XML syntax might actually be interesting
... XSLTForms is now implementing XPath3
... not a big problem

Steven: This is actually a bigger issue than I had expected.

Philip: Last time we discussed this, this is where we stalled too
... How do you identify the transform, if you sdo it with a pseudo-submission?
... XProc is considering similar problems with passing parameters too.
... My personal preference is an instruction rather than a function, and it being like submission, but I understand the point of dealing with documents and parameters.
... we would have more options and flexibility if we use an XML format.

Steven: There will be an XProc conference here in the Autumn, and I don't follow them closely, but I gather they are considering big changes.

Erik: XQuery is more flexible and expressive for dynamically creating documents. In XForms you need actions.
... maybe we could mandate the XPath3 transform.

<ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/#id-maps

Erik: One aspect is the literal syntax to specify a map

<ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions-31/#map-functions


<su> Sunday</su>

<mo> Monday</mo>



<ebruchez> transform(map:put(map:put(map.empty(), 'p1', 'v1'), 'p2', 'v2')

Steven: What I am missing is some use-cases
... to measure solutions by

Philip: My benchmark is being able to create a schematron schema in XForms and compile and run that against another instance in the form.
... with a transform function, everything could run in the form.

Erik: Another usecase is the ability during a submission to transform the data.

Alain: I use this a lot, for adding nodes that later get removed.
... I use my own transform function.

Steven: Do we have a description of your transform Alain?

Alain: Not a formal one, it is quite simple.

Steven: I'd like to know how your parameter passing works and so on.

Alain: I'll have a look for an example.

<alain> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/XSLTForms/The_transform_function

Steven: Thanks!

Philip: I made some examples to do transforms, I could try and locate that.
... I'm on holiday from Friday (regrets for next week); I'll try and send today.

Steven: let's look at some examples this week, and discuss firther next week.

7 The XForms Submission Module


Section 8 (Controls)


Steven: I'd like to wrap Sections 7 & 8, and move on.
... Do you need more time, or can we move on?

Erik: I will take a quick look

Philip: I'm up to 7.7, with no comments.
... but I'm away next week

Steven: OK, I'll give two weeks.


Philip: I've found the code for transform, so I'll send thm


Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: Steven Alain Philip Erik
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016May/0012
Found Date: 25 May 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/05/25-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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