IRC log of forms on 2016-05-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 12:44:59 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #forms
- 12:44:59 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/25-forms-irc
- 12:45:01 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 12:45:01 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #forms
- 12:45:03 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 12:45:03 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 12:45:04 [trackbot]
- Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
- 12:45:05 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 May 2016
- 12:45:18 [Steven]
- Chair: Steven
- 12:45:22 [Steven]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016May/0012
- 12:45:31 [Steven]
- Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016May/0012
- 12:57:46 [alain]
- alain has joined #forms
- 13:03:05 [Steven]
- Steven has left #forms
- 13:03:15 [Steven]
- Steven has joined #forms
- 13:04:23 [Steven]
- Topic: transform(): in particular the parameter passing
- 13:04:23 [Steven]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016May/0006.html
- 13:05:38 [Steven]
- Steven: [summarised last week for Philip]
- 13:05:45 [Steven]
- Erik: I don't have a solution yet.
- 13:06:19 [Steven]
- Erik: There are parameters to pass to the XSLT processor, and as inputs to the transformation
- 13:06:47 [Steven]
- ... in XPath3 you have more tools to do it (hashmaps)
- 13:06:58 [Steven]
- s/)/ in particular)
- 13:07:49 [Steven]
- ... in XPath2 we don't have maps (though you could implement them as an extension)
- 13:07:58 [Steven]
- ... so the options are limited
- 13:10:14 [Steven]
- ... we could use sequences, which give limitations
- 13:10:24 [Steven]
- ... another is to use XML documents (instances)
- 13:11:24 [Steven]
- ... which would make the transformation rather heavy
- 13:11:51 [Steven]
- ... building the instance would be heavy
- 13:14:39 [Steven]
- Steven: But I see transformation as an alternative to submission, we send off a bit of XML, and we get a bit of XML back
- 13:14:58 [Steven]
- ... why can't we use the submission mechanism to support transformations?
- 13:15:11 [Steven]
- Erik: Transformations do more than that.
- 13:15:56 [Steven]
- ... if we limit to sending on XML document and getting one back, it would be a subset of what you can do
- 13:16:18 [Steven]
- ... it wouldn't be compatible with XPath3
- 13:16:35 [Steven]
- Steven: Well if it is a subset it would be compatible, but wouldn;t cover XPath3
- 13:16:42 [Steven]
- s/;/'/
- 13:17:19 [Steven]
- Erik: The attributes we have on submission are not relevant to XSLT
- 13:18:21 [Steven]
- ... instead of sending it to a resource we would send it to a transformation
- 13:18:23 [Steven]
- \Steven: Yes
- 13:18:57 [Steven]
- Alain: I am concerned about customers generating XForms. An XML syntax might actually be interesting
- 13:19:20 [Steven]
- ... XSLTForms is now implementing XPath3
- 13:19:29 [Steven]
- .... not a big problem
- 13:20:30 [Steven]
- Steven: THis is actually a bigger issue than I had expected.
- 13:20:52 [Steven]
- Philip: Last time we discussed this, this is where we stalled too
- 13:20:56 [Steven]
- s/TH/Th/
- 13:21:18 [Steven]
- Philip: How do you identify the transform, if you sdo it with a pseudo-submission.
- 13:21:23 [Steven]
- s/./?/
- 13:21:49 [Steven]
- Philip: XProc is considering similar problems with passing parameters too.
- 13:22:24 [Steven]
- ... My personal preference is an instruction rather than a function, and it being like submission, but I understand the point of dealing with documents and parameters.
- 13:23:19 [Steven]
- ... we would have more options and flexibility if we use an XML format.
- 13:24:37 [Steven]
- Steven: There will be an XProc conference here in the Autumn, and I don't follow them closely, but I gather they are considering big changes.
- 13:25:51 [Steven]
- Erik: XQuery is more flexible and expressive for dynamically creating documents. In XForms you need actions.
- 13:26:44 [Steven]
- ... maybe we could mandate the XPath3 transform.
- 13:26:58 [ebruchez]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/#id-maps
- 13:27:00 [Steven]
- ... One aspect is the literal syntax to specify a map
- 13:27:22 [ebruchez]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions-31/#map-functions
- 13:27:25 [pfennell]
- pfennell has joined #forms
- 13:28:25 [Steven]
- <map>
- 13:28:25 [Steven]
- <su>Sunday</su>
- 13:28:25 [Steven]
- <mo>Monday</mo>
- 13:28:25 [Steven]
- ...
- 13:28:25 [Steven]
- </map>
- 13:29:13 [ebruchez]
- transform(map:put(map:put(map.empty(), 'p1', 'v1'), 'p2', 'v2')
- 13:30:47 [Steven]
- Steven: What I am missing is some use-cases
- 13:30:52 [Steven]
- ... to measure solutions by
- 13:33:17 [Steven]
- Philip: My benchmark is being able to create a schematron schema in XForms and compile and run that against another instance in the form.
- 13:34:25 [Steven]
- ... with a transform function, everything could run in the form.
- 13:35:14 [Steven]
- Erik: Another usecase is the ability during a submission to transform the data.
- 13:36:16 [Steven]
- Alain: I use this a lot, for adding nodes that later get removed.
- 13:36:27 [Steven]
- ... I use my own transform function.
- 13:37:02 [Steven]
- Steven: Do we have a description of your transform Alain?
- 13:37:11 [Steven]
- Alain: Not a formal one, it is quite simple.
- 13:37:41 [Steven]
- Steven: I'd like to know how your parameter passing works and so on.
- 13:38:03 [Steven]
- Alain: I'll have a look for an example.
- 13:38:19 [alain]
- https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/XSLTForms/The_transform_function
- 13:38:38 [Steven]
- Steven: Thanks!
- 13:40:01 [Steven]
- Philip: I made some examples to do transforms, I could try and locate that.
- 13:40:33 [Steven]
- ... I'm on holiady from Firday (regrets for next week); I'll try and send today.
- 13:40:44 [Steven]
- s/ady/day/
- 13:40:51 [Steven]
- s/Fir/Fri/
- 13:41:30 [Steven]
- Steven: let's look at some examples this week, and discuss firther next week.
- 13:41:46 [Steven]
- Topic: 7 The XForms Submission Module
- 13:41:46 [Steven]
- https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_XForms_Submission_Module
- 13:41:46 [Steven]
- Topic: Section 8 (Controls)
- 13:41:46 [Steven]
- https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#Core_Form_Controls
- 13:42:34 [Steven]
- Steven: I'd like to wrap Sections 7 & 8, and move on.
- 13:42:48 [Steven]
- ... DO you need more time, or can we move on?
- 13:42:53 [Steven]
- s/DO/Do/
- 13:43:37 [Steven]
- Erik: I will take a quick look
- 13:43:52 [Steven]
- Philip: I'm up to 7.7, with no comments.
- 13:44:04 [Steven]
- ... but I'm away next week
- 13:44:12 [Steven]
- Steven: OK, I'll give two weeks.
- 13:44:20 [Steven]
- Topic: AOB
- 13:44:44 [Steven]
- Philip: I've found the code for transform, so I'll send thm
- 13:45:09 [Steven]
- [ADJOURN]
- 13:45:13 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:45:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
- 13:45:46 [Steven]
- Present: Steven, Alain, Philip, Erik
- 13:45:47 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:45:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/25-forms-minutes.html Steven