preview agenda with items from two minutes

<scribe> scribe: fesch

js: we need to need to think what we want to do with flexbox... CSS was hoping to go to proposal in May
... what are our timelines... and usual checkins

jd: I thought I had, but do not see any evidence that I I replied to presentation people...

js: have a good relationship and will work with them in the future

TPAC 2016 Planning

js: have a TPAC page :)
... organizer assured we will have two rooms available
... COGA is planning to meet ... overlap with WCAG and ARIA
... discusses schedule - Michael is putting a list of open issues

Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8

action 20021

action-2001

<trackbot> action-2001 -- Léonie Watson to Review gamepad https://www.w3.org/tr/gamepad/ -- due 2016-02-10 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2001

<ShaneM> I am involved on the annotation specs

action-2002

<trackbot> action-2002 -- Fred Esch to Review social web protocols https://www.w3.org/tr/social-web-protocols/ -- due 2016-01-20 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2002

action-2011

<trackbot> action-2011 -- Janina Sajka to Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified -- due 2016-04-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2011

js: haven't worked on examples - or I can point them to minutes... need something more concrete

mc: they came back and thought things are fine, said we could write examples...

mb: I am good with CSS

js: statement does not go far enough... if you can look at the spec and provide some possible examples - will send a ptr to minutes...

new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

<MichaelC> Credential Management Level 1

<MichaelC> ACTION: fred to review https://www.w3.org/TR/credential-management-1/ Credential Management Level 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-apa-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> 'fred' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., fesch, fredvogel).

<MichaelC> ACTION: fesch to review https://www.w3.org/TR/credential-management-1/ Credential Management Level 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-apa-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2031 - Review https://www.w3.org/tr/credential-management-1/ credential management level 1 [on Fred Esch - due 2016-05-04].

<MichaelC> MediaStream Recording

<MichaelC> ACTION: janina to review https://www.w3.org/TR/mediastream-recording/ MediaStream Recording [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-apa-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2032 - Review https://www.w3.org/tr/mediastream-recording/ mediastream recording [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-05-04].

<MichaelC> Tracking Compliance and Scope

sm: should be something in the chrome...

<MichaelC> ACTION: shane to review https://www.w3.org/TR/tracking-compliance/ Tracking Compliance and Scope [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-apa-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2033 - Review https://www.w3.org/tr/tracking-compliance/ tracking compliance and scope [on Shane McCarron - due 2016-05-04].

<MichaelC> Resource Timing Level 1

mc: no need to review...

<ShaneM> me ooooh the tracking spec correctly uses the Oxford comma and e.g., !

CSS -- Updates and Next Steps

js: flexbox what is our next steps, we need to formally figure out where APA stands... will APA object? Or left up to individual companies?
... we will help develop another AAM...
... MC will make a stub document to collect issues from CSS
... at a minimum flexbox should mention that they should implement an AAM, even if one doesn't yet exist,
... CSS has said they would write best practices... what is our (APA) bottom line, noting we want to avoid an objection, want to know what our red lines ares
... what are our red lines? We may want to have minutes, but even a survey to +1/-1 or comment on a position

<MichaelC> Stub of CSS-AAM

jd: I would love an AAM style spec for CSS, there are various things the user agent is taking their best guess - at what the author is trying to do
... CSS should be able to tell AT how to expose stuff

js: we may have a time issue, but we may need to find the problem spots...

rs: I agree with all that, CSS needs someone working with us...
... best practices aren't sufficient, they need to suggest what will happen for AT...

<Rich> User agents MUST expose information to assistive technologies in the order specified by CSS Flexbox.

rs: put in spec, the rest can be in a AAm

mc: there is a stub for a CSS AAM which I was going to tell the editors next week

js: need to make sure issues get listed
... what do people think of a survey?
... if we put a line in the sand, we need to have our ducks in a row, and make sure we have a position and consensus

mc: not sure we have a position yet, only what a few of us put together

js: we could ask about that?

mc: that there was active work on an AAM... and I don't think we agreed on particular feature be implemented...

rs: I think this has gone on ...

mc: they would start work on x
... that we would start on an AAM... and some of the bigger things - we have a place to work on navigation... and if we could get all this stuff under way...
... it doesn't make sense to hold up a spec, if everyone (CSS included) are working solving it in good faith..

js: assuming an agreement to work on these documents including an AAM, is it appropriate to ask them to put a requirement in the flexbox spec...

mc: there is a procedural problem, having a dependency in one spec on a non-existent spec

js: we could go to director...

mc: those are the options -

rs: would we accept a should?
... IBM will probably object, unless they put in...

mc: if we got a director to accept a dependency on a non existent spec, it probably won't be accepted because the AAM doesn't exist.
... we don't have anything more than a strong recommendation.

rs: why are we being bashful?
... we have asked them many times
... we gave in on the keyboard support...

mc: I am being bashful then I want to preserve a good working relationship

rs: why is this unreasonable?
... so it would be ok if it were a SHOUL

D

mc: yes, we could even ask them to make an errata when the AAM is done

js: likelihood a SHOULD is the best we can ask for
... asking for a SHOULD seems reasonable
... 2 questions - draft sentence from Rich and a strong recommendation (SHOULD)
... that is not a lot of asks

mc: should is reasonable

js: they need to work with us on AAM

mc: code share doesn't support a task force...
... we should get some of the CSS WG interested in accessibility

js: and the last thing is they are working on their good faith best practices document

fe: based on SVG task force, you are only going to get a small group... and the main working group won't be knowledgeable on it

js: so is a task force a good way to do it?

fe: yes
... pain points is when you need their specs changed

js: we want to keep a good working relationship
... any remaining thoughts?

HTML Resurrecting H1-H6? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2016Apr/0053.html

js: two approaches to doing headings in HTML ... H1-H6 then the HTML 2 approach H1s and local headings... looking to drop the XHTML approach as it not implemented

mc: It is the idea that you can calculate heading levels ...

rs: if you mix both paradigms wont you have problems?
... people use heading incorrectly for styling

mc: shame to get rid of heading algorithms...
... using h elements are a pain with a template, would rather have a calculated one...

rs: is better to get user agent support?

mc: chaals is pointing out that AT need different info from what you see, and authors aren't going to be aware of the problem
... it was the browser is sending to the APIs but they are not sending heading levels to the API based on calculated levels...
... a need for actual calculation is needed for the API but browsers aren't doing that
... if HTML weren't dropping this, then it could go in the HTML AAM.

rs: can we ask to not throw it out?

mc: Might, but they may come back with a timeline...
... unsure of where it will go...

js: have seen a lot of bad H1-H6 usage...

mc: they are saying it should be removed because no one uses it

js: should we ask the HTML AAM people this?

rs: have talked to AT vendors about this?

js: there is one here...

jd: I don't think an AT would change...

js: should the HTML AAM address this?

jd: their calculated by what is in the DOM?
... any time you don't just take what the author provided, you may have a problem

js: our action is to ask the HTML AAM whether it would be worth trying to keep

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/don't know if/thought I had, but do not see any evidence that I/
Found Scribe: fesch
Inferring ScribeNick: fesch
Present: ShaneM Janina Joanmarie_Diggs fesch Michiel_Bijl Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets: Cynthia Leonie Gottfried John
Found Date: 27 Apr 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-apa-minutes.html
People with action items: fesch fred janina shane

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