Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference -- 22 Apr 2016

<Sharron> Scribe: Sharron

<Brent> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings

Brent: Let's get started, thanks for coming. Want to introduce Laura Keen from Library of Congress.

all: Introductions

May F2F meeting

Brent: We are planning 3 f2f meetings, the one in March, the one at AccessU in May and then one at TPAC. See the draft agenda linked from today's.

<Brent> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_May_2016

<Brent> Sharron: For the May face to face we will be continuing the work we did at the previous face to face. Update from Resource Managers about their resources and looking more into outreach.

<Brent> Sharron: We will also be doing some user feedback on some of our resources and then looking at that data during the meeting.

Denis: accessU is in three weeks, how much time does it leave for us to plan and reorganize the content? or is the AccessU would be the kickoff?
... it would be great if we all came to the meeting with a good vision of what we have. Using the WAI documents page as a starting place, if we could take stock of that it would be useful as a place to start.

<Brent> WAI Pages Link: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/wai-pages

Sharon: blahblah blah

Denis: if we can capture the analysis in advance and have a good sense of where we are so we do not spend a lot of time doing that in place. That is what I was trying to get at as well as ideas of information architecture. Maybe linking or combining support docs like Tutorials and Quick Start guides. So to be thinking about ways that these are combinned or linked to be more useful.
... to make the content more useful

Andrew: what about using tools like https://www.optimalworkshop.com/ with users present at AccessU and wider?

Brent: Each document has a requirements document. Is that the only way to know who is the intended audience?

Shadi: Yes I think that is the only place it is explicitly stated so looking at those might be more useful.

<yatil> ACTION: EricE to add the possibility to add audiences to the sortable page overview tool/page he’s developing. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/22-eo-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-345 - Add the possibility to add audiences to the sortable page overview tool/page he’s developing. [on Eric Eggert - due 2016-04-29].

Shadi: I am happy to point you to those if it is not clear. I think it is important to look at for RMs during their analysis

Brent: Should we link to that?

Eric: Good idea and maybe other meta information

<yatil> ACTION: EricE to add a link to the requirements documents to the sprtable page overview tool/page he’s developing. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/22-eo-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-346 - Add a link to the requirements documents to the sprtable page overview tool/page he’s developing. [on Eric Eggert - due 2016-04-29].

Andrew: clarifying that we still have no analytics? no idea of numbers to help with prioritiazion?
... I know Shawn has talked about it in the past.

Shadi: I do not know what the latest staus is.

Brent: Shawn recently said the opportunity for analyticis is reinvigorated, maybe more possible soon.
... To make sure RMs look at the requirements doc and put the data into the survey along with their analysis

Denis: That will maximize the efficiency of our time together.

Sharron: Circulate the questionairre from TM Media in advance?

Andrew: Yes then those of us who cannot attend can contribute

Denis: And have a good idea of what we want to do with the documents is just a important as what they are. Should all be prepared to talk about the document and make a recommendation aboout what we want to do with it.
... I can go back and update the survey?

Brent: Yes and we can extend the time open as needed.

Denis: If we will add a column on target audience, can we update with the status recommendation as well?

Sharron: good idea

<yatil> ACTION: EricE to add status information to the page overview tool/page he’s developing. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/22-eo-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-347 - Add status information to the page overview tool/page he’s developing. [on Eric Eggert - due 2016-04-29].

<yatil> ACTION: EricE to add everything dboudreau wants to the page overview tool/page he’s developing ;-) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/22-eo-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-348 - Add everything dboudreau wants to the page overview tool/page he’s developing ;-) [on Eric Eggert - due 2016-04-29].

Brent: Anything else about the F2F agenda?

Resource Dev Life Cycle

Brent: Based on the work we did in March, we had the initial draft and James updates

<Brent> updated RDLC Draft: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/RDLC

James: I have added a section to the second - conceptual design and saw Denis' comments, thanks for that. I am continuing changes based on comments received and welcome more input.
... please continue to comment as it is updated.

Denis: As I was going over last night's edits I was not sure how to comment. Then I got a message from Andrew about screen readers, so what is the best way to edit the wiki?

Eric: I don't really know. Probably not the best to make a repository for that.

Brent: The hard part is if two people work at the same time, they overwrite.

James: Denis' comments were in line, he did not change the page. So that is helpful. I will think about how to manage this and have a process by next week.

<Andrew> RDLC is taking good shape :)

Brent: Thanks for your work on this, let's try to get this nailed down by the F2F

Accessibility, Usability, and Inclusion

<Brent> Accessibility and Inclusion Current Draft: http://w3c.github.io/wai-inclusion/

Shadi: Thanks for the survey comments and the specific edit suggestions that were quite helpful.
... based on those comments, I have made the document shorter, more tight, more focused.
... not much comment on the requirements. Some have questioned the purpose and it is different than many. It has been suggested to have this as a blog post or article rather than a formal WAI page, that is a separate question. I would like the group to consider the improtance and need for graphics, visual elements. We have found them to be a bit tricky in the past - for a Venn diagram for example.
... may quickly get over complicated. My request was to ask at the F2F to brainstorm about visual enhancement for this resource.
... or if you have other suggestions about how to illustrate this text, would like that.
... text has been refined, still looking for input on visuals.

Denis: I was a bit confused by the document. Defining the purpose or how it fits with our resources. Because of that I have not been able to understand how to comment.
... we typically talk about these three things but it needs another category user experience. I am in agreement that it needs a diagram that shows how accessibilityis a subset of both.
... it may make more sense with the visual support but still not clear where it fits in our body of work.

Shadi: If we all get the diagrams in our head out onto the page, we may begin to clarify. The history of this is that it has existed since 2010 in one form or another but has always been stand alone. It resulted from the consideration of WAI-AGE and how older users approach the web. There were some cases where accessibility got over burdened with the expectation to work for older people.
... but there was the danger of accessibility being subsumed and diluted by being just a subset of usability.
... there are reasons for specific usability techniques vs accessibility standards, the document was Usability and Accessibility, better together.
... now comes questions about inclusion - is this not just a part of that? The problem is that accessibility standards can get lost in that overarching concern.
... so this is meant to be a place to go for policy makers, researchers, may be more of a white paper, FAQ, position statement.

<Andrew> there is discussion like https://twitter.com/dugboticus/status/723478915780612096 too :)

Shadi: So the consideration of what is the best vehicle to get the message out?

<shadi> previous attempt at "WAI posts": https://www.w3.org/WAI/posts/2009/older-users-online.html

Brent: The problem I see is that while it has a different intent, it looks just like the other WAI pages. If in the redesign we have a way to distinguish between tools, resources for implementation, articles, etc that will be useful and help people stay oriented to the topic at hand.

Shadi: Yes when Eric and I were talking about the UI Components List our thought was to use the interface for other tools. So thinking that we will have more options in the future, we still must make a decision about what to do with this now.

Brent: What we need today is to look at the text once more and then define next steps.
... and then bring to f2f considering the visuals and brainstorming that. You want people to focus on the text itself, not worry about where it should go or the visuals.

<shadi> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-eo-editors/2016Apr/0028.html

Sharron: blah blah blah James approach

Shadi: Yes that is a consideration as well. Not sure what to suggest.

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say starting point

Eric: We should just decide if this text is a good baseline and then if because of its placement later on, we can edit as needed.
... making this the starting point for the f2f.

<Andrew> s/startign/starting

Shadi: Using James' article as an example, maybe punch up the prose even a bit more.

James: Not sure if you thought I was suggesting as the entire article. It was more of a readbility question. I did not cover the whole article, was more suggesting an approach, an example of tone more than anything.

<shadi> #1 contents for agreement with key points

Shadi: It is a nice conversational tone which is nice. Wondering about the target audience being more authoritative, if we want to keep a more formal tone.

<shadi> #1 check contents for agreement with key points

<shadi> #2 check tone and approach for target audience

James: Yes it is the question. The main issue for me is to continue to define where we want our work to go, don't want to put a lot of work into making and changing new resources until we decide where we are going with the website and content strategy.
... to be sure we use our time well.

<shadi> #3 check for punchiness and clarity of arguments

<Andrew> c/readbility/readability

Shadi: So for this week, check the text for agreement with key points, check for punchiness, clarity, validity of arguments, tone and approach for the target audience.

Improving Websites document

Shadi: Thanks to Shawn and Susan. Issue #62 provided comments about how to better meet the use case.

<Brent> Improving Websites Issue #62: https://github.com/w3c/wai-planning-and-implementation/issues/62

Shadi: it is called "Improving the Accessiiblity of YOur Website" and is a companion to "Planning and Managing" which is more long term. "Improving" is more of an immediate fix. Susan suggested the title does not reflect that use case "Hey I need to fix this now"

<yatil> +1 to look for a better title

Shadi: she suggests something like "Quick Fix" but the problem there is that even immediate remediation may not be entirely "quick"
... what do people think?

<Brent> I like "immediate" better than "quick"

<shadi> [quick fix]

<shadi> [accessibility band-aid]

<shadi> [immediate]

<shadi> [short-term]

<yatil> Web Accessibility Contingency Plan

Denis: Initially I liked quick fix and remembered the aria-danger article by Simply Accessible.

http://simplyaccessible.com/article/danger-aria-tabs/

<lkee> +1 for Web Accessibility Contingency Plan

Denis: The reaction by one developer was that if this doesn't work (becasue users don't know to use it) then "I give up" Some people might critisize that we are pretending to have a "Quick Fix" when really it is a more complex problem/
... maybe overview?

<yatil> “Web Accessibility?” Now What?!

<Brent> -1 to contingency

Sharron: emergency

first aid for inaccessible web sites

Shadi: we also want people to know that they cannot just follow this and think they were done.

Laura: A real life example from the Library is that a manager has purchased software and meant for everyone to contribute. Some of our staff is blind and the tool is completely inaccessible. We can't give them a quick and easy fix and so I think we need to do a disclaimer.

<yatil> [Fixing Accessibility Issues in a Sustainable Way]

Shadi: That situation is unfortunately frequent.

Laura: it is a culture thing as well. Even though we have documented that the product is inherantly inaccessible, they have gone forward. In the meantime, they have assured the upper management that they are working on the problem and I would not want them to find a page like this to use as support for their argument.

<dboudreau> how about something like “first steps”?

<yatil> [First Steps to tackle Web Accessibility Issues]

Shadi: Please keep thinking aobut title and review the update based on Shawn and Susan's input.

Accessible UI Componenets List

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/blog/wai-components-gallery/

Eric: Link is here and I have worked all week to bring this to meet the suggestions from last week. Will be urvey next week to get approval of the design side of things. Here are the changes. Tried to make it work a bit more like the Tools list

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/

Eric: one of the things I did was to change the colors of the sections on the left. Have not yet implemented expand/collapse but will do that if the sections get longer.
... also completely AJAXified it so the whole page updates when you filter
... we have the same function as the Tools List, added disclaimer, etc. That's the high level overview of the changes, ready for your comments.
... I will at the beginning of next week, update the submission process and the tags.

<Andrew> getting better and better :)

Sharron: Can we make fewer "accessible" titles

Andrew: They say it to differentiate themselves from others out there.

Brent: Wondered what people thought about the GitHub banner across the bottom and there is a lot of text in the thumbnail image...how do people react to that?

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/blog/wai-components-gallery/#component-314

Andrew: Very much like the reactive behavior. Maybe suggest that the reset filters be more easily findable - maybe locate near the 'filters' column.

Eric: It is similar to Tools list and Quick Ref but I will look at it again.

Denis: How easy to skin this?

Eric: It is raw data.

Denis: I could use a bit more padding for readability and to make it less crowded.

<Brent> +1 to adding padding

Eric: I can add more padding, good suggestion

Denis: Something visual to help us distinguish between the Description and the metadata.
... playing with colors perhaps, background color, maybe smaller font. May look like a footer for each component

<shadi> [self-referential link; consider using different background color for "metadata"; prefer each meta-date item to be a separate bullet point beneath each other; remove "for wordpress" unless also doing that for other vendors (otherwise seems as promotional); check spinner when filters are selected (does not pop up for me); consider a bit more spacing between the different items and a broader heading bar]

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/

Brent: The presentation on the Tools List is more like what you are refering to.

<shadi> [different background colors for different filters in the nav bar is confusing - why are they different?; consider expand/collapse for individual filter groups like in the tools list]

Denis: Having a similar visual would be useful as well.

<yatil> [“remove "for wordpress" unless also doing that for other vendors (otherwise seems as promotional)” – This will be for all CMS that are submitted to make it easy to spot for which CMS the theme is.]

Sharron: +1 to similar visual presentation

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say accessibility

Brent: we will get a survey out to approve this.

Web perspectives videos

<Andrew> http://w3c.github.io/wai-showcase-examples/Overview

Brent: Not much editing can be done, but surveys are clear about what you can comment upon.

<yatil> +1 Bravo for the videos, I love the music, btw.

Shadi: Two points: Please comment on music, we know how subjective it is. also comment on scene duration and we will address when we can. concern has been raised about the British accent, if it is too British, does it need more variety?

Denis: Funny that you mentioned it - that seems a US-centric comment

Shadi: Yes we may not want to ask the people who invented the language not to speak it.

Denis: I did struggle a bit with the accent on the complex language, I could not understand the words he was saying.
... my first thought was that here is where captions would help.

<Andrew> scribe: Andrew

Shadi: concerns is that videos are meant to be promotional - could it be percieved to be for the UK, not somewhere else?

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say it is not a problem (for me)

Eric: totally not a problem to have British accent

Brent: people I've shown them to - no problem with accent

wftw

Brent: several surveys - watch for them as they come out
... anything else to raise?
... thanks you all - talk again soon

all: welcome to Laura

<yatil> trackbot, end meeting

- DRAFT -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

22 Apr 2016

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