See also: IRC log
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown> action-2008?
<trackbot> action-2008 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Handle concept of description property for UIA -- due 2016-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008
JS: Cynthia provided me with text
for the description property.
... We discussed this without her last week.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy
JS: I would like to get her confirmation that the text at the above URL is correct.
CS: The first one looks fine.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#accessible-names-and-descriptions
JS: The next one as the above
URL.
... That one may have a mistake in it.
... The fourth paragraph (Joseph reads)
CS: It should be UIA and not
MSAA.
... I was doing a bunch of editing at the same time. I must
have missed this one.
JS: I will fix that MSAA
instance.
... Can we close this action?
CS: Yes.
<clown> issue-540?
<trackbot> issue-540 -- Should the UAIG have a section to describe the API differences -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/540
JS: There are still a few things open with issue-540.
Group says happy birthday!
<clown> action-2012?
<trackbot> action-2012 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UIA mapping for role="region" (Github issue #243) -- due 2016-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2012
JS: Again, it's a PR from
Cynthia.
... I've merged it in.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
JS: The result is at the above
URL.
... Is that right?
... There are four bullets there.
CS: That is correct.
JS: I'm going to close action-2012 then.
<clown> ACTION-2013
<trackbot> ACTION-2013 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UIA mapping for role=navigation (GIthub issue #242) -- due 2016-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2013
JS: There is another one,
action-2013.
... Role navigation in this case.
... Another pull request from Cynthia.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-navigation
JS: It's at the above URL.
... I'll let Cynthia look it over.
CS: That's correct.
JS: Then I'm closing this one too.
CS: There are a bunch of these, right?
JS: Yes.
... That might be it for now, though.
<clown> action-2041?
<trackbot> action-2041 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to AXAPI: New subrole for role="application" since 'AXLandmarkApplication' no longer applies (application role no longer a landmark) -- due 2016-03-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application
JS: We finally have the new mapping for role="application" on AXAPI.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application
JD: That mapping looks correct to me, based on what I committed to WebKit. :)
RS: Looks fine to me.
JS: I can close this one too then.
<clown> action-1541?
<trackbot> action-1541 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2016-02-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
JS: This one is going to take a
little more work.
... We have something for mappings for aria-modal in AXAPI.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalTrue
JS: First, you'll want to look at
the above.
... That is when aria-modal is true.
... What you do with AXAPI is prune the accessibility tree of
the background content.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalFalse
RS: Is that not expensive to do?
JS: And the next URL has the mapping for aria-modal with a value of false.
RS: We're going to do automated
testing. What is the impact?
... We'll have to have elements outside of the dialog.
CS: Yes, but I think we can manage this by ascending the accessibility tree and see if the dialog is the top of the tree.
JS: You'll notice that IA2 sets
or clears a state.
... Ditto for ATK/AT-SPI2.
... So on this action... When I was adding it, I noticed the
other platforms are a state change.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-modal
JS: But AXAPI is changing the
contents of the tree.
... Therefore I added text at the above URL.
... And I need the platform experts to confirm what I put there
makes sense.
RS: You do not normally see state
changes for modal; it's a property.
... If it's modal, you're going to have the state change before
it appears.
... I don't see it happening.
... Do you really want to test that?
CS: Changing the value of the
modal state?
... Yes.
RS: You'll think it will change while it's running?
CS: No. Not changing at
runtime.
... I would assume people would insert the dialog into the DOM
with the modal property/state already on it.
... If there's some other way people are doing it.... Like
positioning it off screen (which would be really bad).
JS: I have two people saying get
rid of this event table for aria-modal.
... And I'm happy to do so.
RS: Would you change the state of readonly or required?
CS: The readonly state could
change.
... I can see that you might need events if there's
initialization happening.
... If they're building the DOM in script.
... But changing them in response to user action seems
unlikely.
RS: I'm just trying to keep the testing focused.
CS: But we're going to automate the testing.
JS: Ok, I will remove the
aria-modal event table.
... After I do that, I can close action-1541.
<clown> action-1668?
<trackbot> action-1668 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668
JS: I almost got this done
today.
... It involves using this new role from IA2.
... I'm assuming we're going to get it.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
JS: Here's (above is)
region.
... If you look at the ATK/AT-SPI mapping, it has ROLE_LANDMARK
and xml-roles:region as an object attribute.
... I'm assuming IA2 will be done the same way.
RS: Yes.
JS: Since there are a bunch, I
didn't want to make the change and have it be wrong.
... Do I need to wait for Alex to confirm.
RS: I would go ahead and do
it.
... This should save some time: You only look at the xml-roles
if it's a landmark.
JS: That's what Joanie has been saying.
RS: On iOS, you navigate to
landmarks with VoiceOver.
... I think it's the same on Android.
... I can see the value of going to navigation sections, as it
saves you time.
JS: I will then make these changes and bring them up for review next time.
<clown> action-1686?
<trackbot> action-1686 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Drive mapping of aria-errormessage to aapis -- due 2015-07-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1686
<clown> action-1692?
<trackbot> action-1692 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1692
<clown> action-1693?
<trackbot> action-1693 -- Alexander Surkov to Propose MSAA+IA2 mapping for aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1693
JS: Joanie and I were talking about this yesterday.
RS: I saw a thread about this.
JS: This resulted from our
discussion.
... There was the proposal for relation types being
added.
... Joanie suggested it.
... And there were some concerns raised.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0091.html
JS: The new proposal is
above.
... (Reads)
<clown> ERROR_MESSAGE/ERROR_SOURCE
RS: I'm going to give this a +1 as it's clean.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0098.html
JS: Jason said he was comfortable
with the proposal.
... Then James responded (URL above)
... (Reads from James' response)
... So he didn't completely shoot it down.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0099.html
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0101.html <- Joanie's reply to Jamie
JS: Joanie replied (above
URL)
... (Reads)
<clown> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-February/002019.html
<clown> If you really do want errormessage to be treated as an entirely separate thing, then I have to change my position on this: we need a new relation and new events. If it's really such a new and separate thing, we don't have to worry about existing AT not getting the benefit.
JS: Jamie ends email with that
he's happy with the names proposed.
... He's complaining about the performance issue.
RS: It is another API addition,
but we're going to have that anyway.
... It is different from description, because with description
you'd have to deal with the name calculation.
JS: No you wouldn't, because it's
a different property.
... And I think the spec already has text that makes it clear
that the errormessage value is not part of the text alternative
calculation.
RS: Yes, I wrote it.
JS: Do we just forge ahead and proceed with these new relationships?
CS: It's just a working draft, so we could.
JS: The only one set is UIA, which is controller-for.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaErrorMessage
CS: Right, and that doesn't mean we won't do something different down the road.
JS: We have nothing for AXAPI either.
CS: If it requires new accessibility API, it's less likely to get implementations.
JS: So you want ARIA 1.1 in CR or PR by June, Rich?
RS: 1.1 should be feature complete in June.
JS: If we go with Joanie's latest proposal (the new relations), they won't exist.
RS: So they have to be added.
JS: How long do you think that will take?
RS: Looking at the specs, we're not talking a lot of work.
JS: It's just an enum.
RS: And a description.
... I'd be happy to write it in there, if that's what it
takes.
JS: But that's what Cynthia is saying: New API takes longer.
RS: You have to for ROLE_LANDMARK (in IA2).
<Rich> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/group__grp_relations.html
CS: Introducing something now which requires API changes seem riskier than things introduced last year.
RS: I don't think it's a big deal for IA2.
JS: Pending Jamie's reply, I'll add the mappings.
JD: And pending that confirmation, I'll add the new relations to ATK, AT-SPI2, and pyatspi.
<scribe> ACTION: Joanie to add new API to ATK, AT-SPI2, and pyatspi for errormessage mappings. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/12-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2050 - Add new api to atk, at-spi2, and pyatspi for errormessage mappings. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-04-19].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/get rid of this event table/get ride of this event table for aria-modal/ Succeeded: s/get ride of this event table for aria-modal/get rid of this event table for aria-modal/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 12 Apr 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/04/12-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: joanie WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]