See also: IRC log
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
action-2009
<trackbot> action-2009 -- Cynthia Shelly to Update UIA mapping for role="main" (GitHub issue #238) -- due 2016-02-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2009
JS: This is a fresh action.
... I saw yesterday that Cynthia made some requests to the
mapping of role="main".
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-main
JS: I did it this morning. See the above URL.
CS: Looks good. Thanks.
JS: I'm going to close the action; I'll let you (Cynthia) close the GitHub action.
CS: Is it checked in?
JS: Yes.
action-1531
<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1531
JS: The continuing saga of role="text"
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0151.html
JS: I asked Alex about the
mapping for role="text" for IA2.
... (See above URL)
... Alex says he's ok with that.
... But he also wants there to be the accessible text
implementation on both IA2 and ATK.
... Alex did point out that he didn't like this as there will
be instances where accessible text doesn't apply.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0151.html
JS: I pointed out to Alex that
Jamie had said he could handle both instances.
... Alex then asked why UIA's mapping was different.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-text
JS: I'm reading from the above
URL.
... It looks like UIA mapping is to the text control
pattern.
... So I'm wondering if Cynthia could reply to Alex's
question.
CS: This mapping is what we'd do
for a span.
... When we map something as text, it doesn't become its own
separate text control pattern.
... Unless it has a property (like a tabindex) necessitating it
be exposed as a seperate accessible object.
... So basically for role="text" you're taking the semantics
off.
... Which is somewhat different from role="presentation".
JS: I think that this is essentially what the other platforms are doing.
CS: I don't like the fact that role="text" removes all the tags.
<clown> <table role="text"> ... many rows, columns, and cells ... </table>
JS: I agree.
... I replied to Alex that I shared his misgivings.
... See above example.
CS: I still don't understand why we need both role="presentation" and role="text".
JS: With role="presentation", at least the block level elements are preserved; this is not the case for role="text", which becomes one big string.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-text
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation
CS: So from a practical point of view, role="text" turns things into spans; role="presentation" turns them into divs?
JS: I believe so, yes.
CS: For UIA, there's not going to
be a functional difference.
... And I think having both is going to potentially confuse
people
JS: (Reads from original proposal)
CS: So the behavior is different
for images?
... I'm not sure what we do with presentational images.
... But it seems like role="text" on an image will take the alt
text and expose it like the span-like contents.
BG: Presentation applied to form fields don't cause the form fields to go away.
JS: I think if the element has an
event on it, or one of the globals, presentation is
ignored.
... I don't think role="text" has that caveat.
CS: That's scary.
JS: Yes it is.
CS: For UIA, we could tweak it
slightly wrt the name calculation.
... Right now, presentation doesn't run name calculation.
... But if you had button with a title, or an image with alt
text, the underlying string would not get added for name
calculation.
... In the case of role="text", perhaps it should.
<clown> cyns, we lost you on webex.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/435
<cyns> UIA: Text Control Pattern. Run name calculation, and add the resulting string to the text pattern for the overall page, at the point where the element occurred.
JS: (Reads some of the comments from issue-435)
JD: We'll I agree with the misgivings, but for the record, this is not going to require Orca have a virtual buffer.
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#text
JS: (Reads from spec)
... It includes role="presentation"/"none" as an alternative
for authors wishing to keep some of the elements.
... And it's a SHOULD -- not a MUST -- for interactive
controls.
CS: Can we add an issue to have the same exemptions on role="text" that we have on role="presentation"?
JS: I think we should.
... And I think it should be in the spec. We can also add
something to the AAM, but....
CS: This is an issue in the spec.
The statement would need to be added to the spec.
... This would make me feel less concerned about
role="text".
<clown> proposed issue text: For role="text", there needs to be requirements on user agents for overrides, such as controls, events, and other global aria properties, like there is for role="presentation".
CS: Looks good to me.
<clown> ISSUE: For role="text", there needs to be requirements on user agents for overrides, such as controls, events, and other global aria properties, like there is for role="presentation".
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-1011 - For role="text", there needs to be requirements on user agents for overrides, such as controls, events, and other global aria properties, like there is for role="presentation".. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1011/edit>.
JS: Are you still going to email Alex?
CS: Yes.
... I'll include the issue and ask him if it helps.
JS: Do you want me to add that mapping?
CS: Yes.
action-1569
<trackbot> action-1569 -- Jason Kiss to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2015-03-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
action-1585
<trackbot> action-1585 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia. -- due 2016-01-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1585
JS: I was trying to find time to
add Jason's section to the Core AAM, and Cynthia's text as
well.
... I've asked Jason how he wants to proceed.
... But I've not yet heard back from him.
... So I may just proceed and then ask him.
CS: Sounds reasonable.
action-1593
<trackbot> action-1593 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps. -- due 2016-02-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1593
JS: That's the same one,
really.
... Correction, it's not.
... This is something we opened a year ago.
CS: I pushed the date out
again.
... I do intend to do it, but other things keep coming up.
action-1691
<trackbot> action-1691 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose UIA mapping for aria-errormessage. -- due 2015-12-31 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1691
issue-1010
<trackbot> issue-1010 -- Add an error role -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1010
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1691
JS: This is one I want to put
past you quickly.
... I got your text, I made the changes.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaErrorMessage
JS: They are at the above
URL.
... I discovered when doing so that we didn't have a table yet
for aria-errormessage.
... So I put in the UIA text and left the others TBD.
CS: (Reads the current proposed
mapping and suggests "target")
... The other thing you could do instead of a long sentence is
just say "ControllerFor".
JS: I thought about it, but I
didn't know what it meant, so I looked around.
... The statement that is there is the same one elsed
elsewhere.
... I've already closed the action (action-1691).
... I'll update the text as described.
action-1541
<trackbot> action-1541 -- James Craig to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2015-08-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
JS: Is anything new?
... The last time I looked, there was a bug in WebKit's
bugzilla.
... It's now resolved.
... As a duplicate.
... The duplicate is marked resolved FIXED.
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566
JS: I'll assign this action to
myself and do the edits.
... I'll try to have it done in a week, which is February
9th.
action-1668
<trackbot> action-1668 -- Alexander Surkov to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668
JS: I have no notes on this.
JD: Rich recently did email Alex on some list.
action-1689
<trackbot> Sorry, but action-1689 does not exist.
action-1681
<trackbot> action-1681 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose new wording, as an editorial change only to clarify the inclusion rules in section 5.1.2 -- due 2015-09-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1681
JS: This is mine.
... I thought it was ambiguous. Cynthia disagrees.
... My problem is with the first sentence.
... It implies if something has already been excluded, skip
this section.
... That is not right.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements
CS: Your re-write sounds
ok.
... (Reads it)
... The old text didn't bother me, but your text seems good
too.
BG: I don't see anything wrong with it.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/708
JS: My text is in the comments of this issue.
Suggested rewording:
"The following conditions override the rules above in Excluding Elements in the Accessibility Tree. Even if excluded by those rules, user agents MUST ...
<clown> <span role="presentation" tabindex="0" onclick="clickHandle" aria-labelledby="foo">DingDong</span>
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/136
JD: Given the whole SVG golden hammer thread (see above URL), should we consider your proposed text in the context of this larger issue rather than just committing it because we here agree your text sounds good/right?
JS: Can you look at my example in
this log.
... My reading of the Core AAM says that span is not included
in the accessibility tree because role="presentation" knocks it
out.
... Thoughts?
JD: (Quotes from GitHub issue
136)
... Conclusion: It would be included; not pruned, because of
aria-labelledby="foo"
... Even though reaching that conclusion is really hard and
messy.
JS: Then I would argue that the
Core AAM is in conflict with the spec.
... I think that the text in the AAM is ambiguous.
... I think the text in the spec is not ambiguous.
(Group discusses variations of Joseph's original example and whether or not it would be included or excluded and what spec or specs apply)
JS: I won't put the text in for now.
CS: You could put the ARIA spec text in.
JS: I think that my text is better as it is not limited to global ARIA attributes.
CS: And I think your (Joseph's) text is better/less ambiguous.
JD: I withdraw my previous
suggestion that you (Joseph) hold off on committing it to Core
AAM.
... I continue to think, however, we need to deal with this in
the ARIA spec, and other specs.
JS: Ok, I'll put it in the Core AAM.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/text pattern/text control pattern/ Succeeded: s/The text would/The statement would/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Cynthia_Shelly Regrets: Rich_Schwerdtfeger Found Date: 02 Feb 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/02/02-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]