Gallery of Accessible Web Components (temp name)

Brent: Have linked to past discussions in the agenda and Shawn will continue and hope to get closer to finalizing a name. Shawn will lead.

Shawn: Thanks to all for the previous discussion, we were looking at two words: one to name the collection and another to name what is it a collection of.
... we have proposed a possible name as a place to start and feel free to respond in *any* way to the proposal
... approach now is to see what is the reaction to that format and the use of the word code.

<Susan_> +1 to Howard

Howard: I worry about the word code, I like components better. Having the sub-title is quite helpful. Prefer the word components.

Sharron: Remember that the word components was a conflict with another W3C project?

Howard: Still don't like code.

Eric: The thing is that Web Components is W3C project to make Javascript bundles of widgets etc that are Web Components.

Shawn: And in future this resource may list components

<Susan_> +q

Shadi: It could be an issue - technically there is a naming conflict since the term web componenets has a specific technical meaning. How well that is adopted and understood is not known but we don't know where it will go in future. May be worth re-opening the discussion of what the the resource is a collection of.

Shawn: Yes it is still open.

Susan: Looking at the survey result, you suggested resources. I think it is too broad but is there a plan to include other resources?
... Yes we have a spearate list of web evaluation tools - the title is List. We have also talked about an additional list of articles and blogs, tutorials. If so, that will be separate.
... why is this list separate from the evaluation tools?

<Andrew> [X] of Accessible Web Building Blocks

Shawn: The search criteria for various resources would be quite different.

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/

Eric: The thing is that when everything is in one place, while it is attractive conceptually, say you seached for datepicker. You would get testing tools, blog posts and widgets or components. It would be difficult to hone in on what you are actually looking for.

<Susan_> likes Shawn's suggestion of top level

Shawn: We could have a top level page that shows all the resource lists and links to each of them.

<Howard> how about "elements"

Andrew: I support Howard's POV that code as a titles is a bit off-putting, I dropped in another suggestion - building blocks.

<shawn> <Andrew> [X] of Accessible Web Building Blocks

Susan: I like that - don't like tools or templates. Code is applicable, but could alienate people who could use it.
... I like building blocks.

<Brent> +1 to Building Blocks

<shawn> Howard Accessible Web Elements

<shawn> Building Blocks for Accessible Web (no X)

<shawn> Building Blocks for Web Accessibility (no X)

Brent: I am not technical and have never built web pages, but it seems to me that this defintely gives you the sense that you can use these things as part of your resources to build an accessible web site.
... I like building blocks

<Howard> turning it around sounds better

<Brent> +1 to Building Blocks for Web Accessibility

<Andrew> Building Blocks for an Accessible Web

Susan: Also my objection to code is that CSS etc are not code they are markup.
... a problem with the word order is that Building Blocks will be first in the order which is a consideration for SEO

Shawn: And Accessibility has better SEO than than Accessible

Andrew: Better working name, but not final?

<shawn> Sharron: not comfortable with Building Blocks

<shawn> ... not what people would search for or think of

<yatil> [Patterns]

<Brent> Good point

<shawn> +1 to sharron

<Andrew> yes - one of the current terms is 'patterns'

Sharron: Building blocks ??

<shawn> Shadi: what would people search for???

<Susan_> widgets

Shadi: What would you search for?

Sharron: Probably componenets

<Susan_> that's what I would search for

Susan: or widgets

Shadi: You would search for the specific thing you were looking for - accessible date picker

Susan: Deque has one the widgets and code bits are aria specific...

<Susan_> https://dequeuniversity.com/resources

hard to find anything unique

<yatil> [Accessible Stuff to use on your Websites]

<kazuhito> [Accessible UI Patterns]

Howard: Doing a search for accessible web components, Bruce Lawson's seems related. Hard to find a term where there would be no confusion with something else.

<shadi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Components

Eric: At W3C Web Component is a collection of different custom elements specific templates and shadow DOM that are imported into your project. It is very specific.

Shawn: And we need a more general term

<shawn> Accessible Objects

Shadi: How much of an issue is it, even if W3C Web Components is defined that way, is it an issue for this, especially if we may inlcude some at a later time.

Shawn: We may need to broaden the discussion.
... if there is not a problem with using the word components, that would be our preferred term?

All: Yes

<Susan_> I'm okay with components

Shawn: So let's check in with the development of Web Components at W3C and see what is the reaction.

<kazuhito> I'm not so fine with "components", it strongly reminds me of HTML5 web components.

<Andrew> W3C has docs like https://www.w3.org/TR/components-intro/

Shadi: And informally let's ask fellow developers what terms they might use and potential conflicts with "components"

Shawn: Let's look at the other part...what to call the collection, using IRC to indicate what you think.

-1

<Andrew> +1

<yatil> -1

Catalogue

<Brent> 0

<kevin> -1

<Howard> 0

<kazuhito> 0

<Susan_> Are we allowed to pick only one?

Sharron: Sounds like a commercial

<yatil> [unwieldy]

<Susan_> -1 can't imagine someone would search for that term

<Andrew> reminds me of library catalogue

Directory

<yatil> [Catalogue: 4 syllables]

<Howard> directory leads you onto something else

<kevin> Sounds like a phone book

neutral, neither like not dislike, seems OK

<yatil> too official

<Susan_> 0 sounds like links to other sites rather than our own collection

<Brent> -1 Directory usually tries to encompass everything

Shadi: Too authoratative, comprehensive

<yatil> [Susan, fyi, it actually links out to other sites]

<Susan_> gotcha, sounds better then. +1

Shawn: This will link out to another sites, remember...becasue we will not host we ruled out library etc

Index

<Andrew> index applies to own material (like in a book)

<Susan_> 0 not strong feelings against but prefer other terms

<shadi> +1 it is really an index

<yatil> + or - but my brain completes it to index.html automatically...

<Howard> index does seem to describe it

<Brent> +1 "an alphabetical list of names, subjects, etc., with references to the places where they occur"

seems OK, not thrilling

<James> 0 makes me think of books or info not widgets to use

Gallery

<shadi> 0 works for me

<James> 0 feels like things to view not use

<Andrew> gallery - our collection :(

<Howard> Gallery implies a collection of different items - so like it for that reason

<shawn> 0

I like gallery, it is an exhibit, you can browse among it, select from among, etc

<yatil> -1/3 - sounds very visual to me

<Susan_> +1 to Yatil

<shawn> 0 not codey at all art gallery

<Brent> +1 to Gallery if we are actually able to show the example of the "component"

List

<Howard> list is too generic

<Andrew> boring!

My favorite, relates directly to the List of eval tools

<Howard> and it reminds me of html lists

<Susan_> agreed.. generic

<shadi> 0 works for me

<shawn> -1 it's a database, not just list

<Brent> 0

<yatil> +? very generic but ok, good with the eval tools list

Shawn: Had ruled out several words that made it sound like we created of held or hosted these things, anyone want resurect and of those?

<James> Toolbox?

Overview

<Howard> -1 on overview

<Susan_> -1 Doesn't sound like an actual collection of usable widgets/examples. Rather a discussion or article

<shadi> -1 it is more than an overview

<shawn> -1 lots partly because we have Overview of WCAG etc throughout WAi site and it's text

<James> -1 agree

not clear that you can get things, may be discussion

<Brent> -1 does not sound like you can find or download examples just overview of the component.

<yatil> -1 don't like it on a second thought...

Toolbox

<Andrew> again, sounds like we have them here

<Howard> -1 doesn't really describe it

<Brent> 0

<Susan_> 0 also sounds a bit like eval tools would be there

<yatil> - 1 don't like it...

<yatil> but don't know exactly why...

<kevin> Toolboxes hold tools... not components

<shawn> ---

<yatil> [Web Development Building Tools List]

<Susan_> +1 to kevin

Web Accessibility Building Tools list

Shawn: To take another approach, what about naming it along the lines of what it is helping you do - find accessible components. So the title might inlcude Finder

<James> +1 to finder

<Howard> clunky

<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to say really liked approach of "Building Block for Web Accessibility" ... maybe "Developer Resources for Web Accessibility"

<yatil> [Developer Resources for Web Accessibility: Widgets, Templates and Frameworks]

<Andrew> +1 'developer resources'

Shadi: I like the way we played away with building blocks, if we look for an overall name, what about something along those lines - turn it around and say who is doing it and what will it do.

+1

<Susan_> So long!

<Susan_> no, that title is too long. :)

<kevin> No designer resources?

<Susan_> acronym: WTF

<Andrew> Developer Resources for an AccessibleWeb = DRAW

<yatil> Frontend Resources: Widgets, Templates Frameworks

<kazuhito> <Accessible UI Pattern Examples>

Eric: UI is in fact basically what it does and we could use it. The term introduces an acronym into the title.
... I don't like that

Shadi: I may focus much more on the CSS aspect rather then the Javascript and interaction...maybe UX

<Howard> User interface can mean too many things

<kazuhito> -1 for UX, it has much wider meanig/scope, rather than UI

Shawn: Andrew suggested a sequence with a nice acronym - DRAW
... any other comments on Developer Resources?
... how much is aimed to "developers" vs "designers"

<shawn> "Developer Resources" is broader -- would apply to Eval Tools and Tutorials...

Eric: Designers would act on top of these resources, may be inspired by but not using them directly.

<yatil> [For future: Developer Resources for an Accessible Web: Articles, Books, Tutorials - DRAW: ABT]

<Susan_> What about "development" instead of developers? Might make it more appealing to other roles

Kevin: In terms of what people call themselves, UX designers may actually use it

<shawn> Development Components for Web Accessibility

<Susan_> +1

Andrew: Designers are increasingly expected to design in HTML

<shawn> Coding Resources for Web Accessibility

Shawn: Brainstorm: Development Components
... whether or not we like that term, it gets rid of the concern with confusion with Web Components, it effectively removes the conflict

<shawn> Developer Components

<shawn> Development Components for Web Accessibility

<shadi> Coding Components for Web Accessibility

<yatil> UI Components for Web Accessibility

Howard: I guess I don't see the need to call out developers, and in fact may isolate and put some people off

<yatil> Frontend and Interaction Components for Web Accessibility

<Susan_> "development" is more functional while "developer" is more role-based

<kevin> Does "Components for Web Accessibility", sidestep the 'Web Components' problem?

<shadi> too broad for me

<Howard> I like "UI components"

Shadi: Componenets for Web Accessibility is just too broad...it could mean the CMS or anything

<shawn> also overlaps with our resource Essential Components of Web Accessibility

Brent: I heard you say developer...does development have the same connotation?

Howard: I prefer UI

<kazuhito> <UI Deveolopment for Accessible Web>

UI Components for Web Accessiiblity

<Howard> +1

<shadi> +1

<Brent> +1 makes sense to me

<Susan_> 0

<yatil> = 2/3 - I don't like abbr in the title but that is the only thing

<Andrew> 0 - has an acronym

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessiiblity: User Interface Widget, Template, Frameworks

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessiiblity: User Interface (UI) Widget, Template, Frameworks

Shawn: For the audience we have targeted UI is perfectly fine. However, could spell it out in the subtitle

<shadi> [totally agree with Shawn - UI is well known for the target audience - and website audience more generally]

<kazuhito> +1 for Shawn

+1

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessiiblity: User Interface (UI) Widget, Template, Frameworks

<Brent> What will the nickname end up being? probably not an acronym, probably "UI Components"

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessiiblity: User Interface (UI) Widgets, Templates, Frameworks

<Howard> like the subtitle - would make them all plural

James: I am probably slightly + but the title is missing the sense that this is a collection that you can browse and find things.

Andrew: And does not indicate that this is external, it implies that we have this

Shawn: I don't see that implication

<yatil> UI Components for Web Accessiiblity: An index for User Interface (UI) Widgets, Templates, Frameworks

Shadi: Don't like the acronym spelled out, we should not be so afraid and should in fact embrace the fact that this is a commonly known term.

<shadi> UI Components for Web Accessibility: List of Widgets, Templates, Frameworks

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessiiblity: Index of Widgets, Templates, Frameworks

Shadi: makes it all too long. Replace spelled out phrase with list or compendium or description.

<Andrew> UI components matches https://github.com/w3c/wai-components-gallery/wiki/Submission-criteria

Shawn: Parting comments?

Gallery submission criteria

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-components-gallery/wiki/Submission-criteria

Eric: We asked folks to look at the criteria, and have adjusted. No need to discuss the results today, can have another look at your convenience.
... unless anyone has discussion points, we can move on.

Volunteers for contributing to the Gallery

<yatil> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-eo-editors/2016Jan/0007.html

Eric: I will send out some pointers and if there are others who want to contribute to this, drop me an email.

Sharron: Eric, did we not ask all of EO to submit at least one?

Eric: No, we invited everyone to do so and send to me or put it into the tool
... thereby testing the process

Howard: Looking at the criteria, I wonder about the WCAG conformance criteria. Do we want people to validate their process for those claims?

<Susan_> +1 to Howard. essential

Howard: wonder if we could have a training or demo for that process

<Susan_> That testing should be included in our submission criteria

<Howard> makes sense

Eric: That is a good point and we need a precess and template for the submission process. For now, we take people's word for it and if the reviewers do not see an obvious violation we are OK for the first round

<Andrew> issue with conformance is often "Only Accessibility-Supported Ways of Using Technologies" requirement

<Susan_> yes to andrew, along with advisory statement that we aren't responsible for inaccessiblity

Shadi: We will not do thorough evaluation, if there is no immediately obvious violation, we will accept claims and allow public comment as well. To be clear, it will function like the Evaluation Tools List. We do not make claims about the tools submitted and we are nt policing them. It is the same with the componenets.

<Howard> maybe an ability to rate or comment on the component would be helpful

<Howard> like an Amazon or Yelp rating function

Shadi: we will have good faith and may need disclaimer similar to that on the Tools List.

Andrew: More than a statement, we may need a statement about accessibility support in different environments and that local assessment will be needed.

Sharron: Also need to collect public comment on implementation.

<yatil> Howard: We have a "There is a problem with this listing" button

Howard: Ability for public to rate them

<Andrew> s/proble with/problem with

Brent: Good discussion, more work to do on disclaimers, etc
... Eric, each week if we can get an update on the numbers that have been added by the volunteer group?

<shawn> ftr, we have done LOTS of thinking on rating and stuff and we can discuss this. also will be good to look at "disclaimer" wording at the draft. later weeks :)

Planning and Managing

<kevin> http://w3c.github.io/wai-dynamic-planning/implement/#assign-tasks-and-support-delivery

Kevin: We added an activity in Implementing

<shawn> +1 to revised title!

Kevin: it is Assign Tasks and Support Delivery and please review and comment on the new material.

Brent: please look over the language and approach of that one activity.

Improving and Policy documents

Brent: These are related and referenced from the Planning and Managing resource. We asked for thorough review

Kevin: Thanks for those of you who did this review, have been through most of the GitHUb issues. Some need further discussion and I am making my way through them Others said they would comment later on so I look forward to those as well.

<Susan_> +q

<Andrew> +1 for more time please

Shawn: The idea of the stage where we are...will be clarifies then. This is your point to "speak now or forever hold you your peace" We had not recently defined what that meant. The thorough review is the last point to do the fine tuning, wordsmithing, and any substantive changes. If you need more time with that in mind, just do that and put the date in the survey.

<shawn> [ Shawn notes to Susan that I took an action item with Kevin to help with that :-]

Susan: I realize at this point, that I missed the window. Looking at it for the first time this week, it was extremely confusing, I am having issues with the wholedocument and the relationsbetween them.

Sharron: Agreed

Brent: We have duly noted that and appreciate that perspective. We have plans for addressing it.
... any other comments or questions? Please return and review futher or submit in GitHub

Evaluation Tools List

<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-eval-tools/

Brent: Want to provide update and alert you to the fact thatthis resource will haveanother separate survey

Eric: We want to release version 1.1 for this tool. Have made a few changes, need group approval to publish. Added a specific technolgy search filter. Have swapped out to inlcude the share button we use on other resources, can copy and paste URL so people can see your same view, and a few other things, such as restyling to align with QRef
... there will be a separate survey to approve those changes. Questions?

Brent: Since it is permission to publish, this will be a ten day survey with only this cconsideration.
... appreciate your review of the changes and permission to publish version 1.1 of the Eval Tools List. Thanks

Showcase Gallery with videos

<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Showcase_Examples_with_Videos

Brent: To remind you we are creating a collection of short videos with a Task Force working with a production compnay. Have been working through visuals and scripts. We have almost completed the scripts for about 10 of these, getting final feedback from the company. Once we have that, will bring those back to the group.
... when we bring those to you, we want you to review the scripts and provide feedback. Any addiitonal comment Shadi?

Shadi: The link in the agenda will take you to the main work for this page. We have developed outlines of the videos that we used to develop the scripts, the production compnay has contributed
... good ideas of how to visualize these ideas. We envisioned 30 second videos, the production compnay convinced us it was pretty dense to do that and we have agreed to extend the time a bit at tehirn suggestion.
... we would really like detailed review, focussed much more on the visual aspects, how the message is being delivered. Will work quite a bit on the actual text but there is more time for that. First consideration will be the strength of the visual elements - please frontload that aspect in your consideration. Any questions?

Brent: We are at a critical point for this and so really will be puching this survey out on Tuesday or Wednesday and hope to get your input within a week. Will be high priority to turn around quickly/

Updated EOWG participation info

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Current_Projects

Brent: Please follow along with the IRC links
... updates to current work, hd gotten an bit outdated wanted to let you know what is coming up.

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Participation_Info

<shawn> this is mostly for new people to EOWG

<kazuhito> I'm still very new, thanks.

<shawn> NEW info! EOWG document review stages https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Participation_Info#EOWG_document_review_stages

Brent: Final document is the document review stages and what is expected for each. We wanted it posted so if you need to recall what is the expectaion, you have this for reference.

Shawn: Please skim through this and let us know if you have questions so that we can clarify.

Brent: The W4TW asks everyone to review this material. It is good information so that we can stay oriented to the stage for current work in progress.
... please stay aware of that process. if you need clarification, don't hesitate to ask.
... since we have a bit of time left, I will return to the naming. Remember we will have a few surveys this week - the standard W4TW, the Showcase examples, and approval to publish Eval Tools

Shawn: More time is possible for Eval Tools but we *really* would like comment on Showcase in one week.

Title of thing formerly known as Gallery of Accessible Web Somethings

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessibility: List of Widgets, Templates, Frameworks (shortname "UI Components List")

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessibility: List of Widgets, Templates, Frameworks (shortname "UI Components List")

Shawn: This is where our discussion was going...reactions?

Shadi: Did we settle on list as the name for the collection?

<shawn> UI Components for Web Accessibility: [X] of Widgets, Templates, Frameworks (shortname "UI Components List")

<shadi> [I like "ui components list" like we refer to "eval tools list"

Shawn: No we had not settled on what to call the thing...it will be [X] for now

<Brent> +1 to me

<shadi> +1

<Susan_> 0

<yatil> +1

<yatil> I like it because it is short.

<Howard> +1 although the title "Accessible UI components" comes to mind

<Susan_> +q

Shawn: What do you like about it, what do you ahve doubts about?

<kevin> Has a mild concern that this again focuses on one element, the UI. I can envisage an accessible template for a blogging CMS that I don't know that I would class as UI. Not a strong feeling though.

<Brent> +1 as a non-programmer the UI part makes sense to me. But I am not technical so I am okay to defer to others ideas.

Susan: I thought we had moved away from components and not sure about UI...my feeling is more 'meh' than anything

<Andrew> UI describes what they apply to

<Susan_> prefer that

<shawn> "Accessible UI components

<Susan_> Keep accessible upfront

<Brent> ++1 to Susan

<Andrew> or even "Accessible UI component [X]"

<Susan_> "Accessible UI components"

<shawn> Accessible UI Components: [X] of Widgets, Templates, Frameworks

<shawn> Accessible UI Components [X]

Andrew: I like having accessible up front too

Shawn: Any concerns with that order?

<James_> Accessible UI Component Directory?

Shawn: want to remind us that accessibility has much better SEO than accessible

Shadi: But would likely will be searching for accessible date picker or whatever.

<shawn> +1 to the ": [X] of Widgets, Templates, Frameworks"

<Andrew> -1

Shadi: also like the longer subtitle.

Shawn: Thanks everyone for the difficult but important process of naming

Brent: Thanks all, since we will ahve three surveys, we will be sending reminders, etc. Thanks all.

<Susan_> bye!

<Andrew> -1 - having [X] on short title make it more fully decriptive

trackbot, end meeting