See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: nigel
nigel: [Runs through agenda.] Anything specific to discuss including AOB?
atai: I'd like to raise the use of VTTCue in relation to HTMLCue.
nigel: We may be somewhat light today but will make progress where we can.
action-453?
<trackbot> action-453 -- Thierry Michel to Schedule between tmichel and philippe the transition to cr3 with any director call as needed. -- due 2016-01-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/453
nigel: As far as I'm aware there's been no progress here - we're waiting on plh and tmichel.
action-383?
<trackbot> action-383 -- Glenn Adams to Missing XML declaration -- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
glenn: I've done this. I'll add a note re the resolution.
nigel: I see it's for TTML 1.0.
glenn: I've fixed for TTML2, and
will fix for TTML 1 and move to pending review later.
... It was hard to work out what was going on. It turns out
there was a Byte Order Mark before the XML declaration.
... I've got that fixed. None of the other files have that in.
I don't know how it appeared.
action-441?
<trackbot> action-441 -- Andreas Tai to Kick off the analysis work on the vttcue carrying html idea. -- due 2015-11-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441
atai: Last week we mentioned
HTMLCue again and some members said they were interested in
pushing this forward.
... Action-441 is just to proceed with evaluating the use of
VTTCue as an alternative existing mechanism. However
... nigel and glenn mentioned that they would like a dedicated
HTMLCue proposal. I think we said that we could
... do that in parallel. When we started the HTMLCue activity
it was difficult to get anyone to take the lead, so we
... ended up having a short proposal to test the water. If now
we have more people interested maybe we could
... create another action for it to make parallel progress.
glenn: I guess we need a document proposal. There are a couple of documents that I created a while back that
<glenn> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml1-api/Overview.html
glenn: have never been published. They were as above.
<glenn> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2-api/Overview.html
glenn: Those links were to two
documents that I threw together in 2013 for a TTMLCue interface
level 1 and 2.
... I could leverage those documents or use them as a template
for a draft HTMLCue.
group: [discussion of who might
be able to take this work forward]
... [concludes that nigel should reach out to david from
netflix]
nigel: Okay I'll do that outside the meeting.
nigel: plh, please could you update us on publication of CR3?
plh: I've been swamped. I
understand the status is that the objection is gone, so you
guys are waiting on
... a Director's decision to update the CR?
nigel: Correct.
plh: I will attempt to get that decision today. I'll let tmichel know by email.
nigel: We have approval to publish and no objections.
plh: I need an update on the changes that were done for the new CR.
nigel: I'll ping Pierre.
glenn: I propose that we accept Pierre's new text for CR3 as circulated on 2016-01-19.
https://rawgit.com/w3c/imsc/imsc-cr3/spec/ttml-ww-profiles-rendered.html
nigel: I'm happy with that too.
RESOLUTION: The group approves publication of Pierre's updated IMSC 1 CR3 as circulated on 2016-01-19.
nigel: So you need the updated changes and you can proceed with this Philippe?
plh: That's correct, yes.
... I should be able to get approval tomorrow.
nigel: Thanks, I think that's all
we can do right now on IMSC CR3 publication.
... Should we perhaps discuss issues, even without Pierre
present?
https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/130
glenn: I would like to note a
couple of comments.
... 1. I disagree that it is late in the process - we're not
late regarding testing until we're ready for PR, and
... we have at least one CR to publish before then, so I don't
consider us late.
... 2. I think Pierre is speculating that there may be an
issue.
... 3. There's no more risk involved in making this change than
accepting the other fixes that I've proposed.
... We already know that we will have to make a change and
Pierre has agreed to that. In my estimation there's
... no additional risk in making this change.
... Also if there is in fact an implementation that has a
problem correctly processing tests with the recommended
addition,
... then that would be an implementation that should not pass,
which would be a greater risk.
... In other words it would be non-compliant for an
implementation to fail because a recommended feature is
present.
nigel: I think there's also a risk that test result contributors will not re-run the updated tests with their implementations.
glenn: In my opinion there should
be no expectation that tests will not change right up until
PR.
... Also we should have tests that only test the things we want
them to and, unless we are testing warnings the test content
should by policy generate no warnings.
nigel: In terms of issue #132, I think the tests in the dece space are not part of the set that need to be passed to exit CR.
glenn: A couple of tests did not
specify a lineHeight which is not recommended in document
instances, in the IMSC spec.
... That was issue #133.
https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/133
nigel: So the view right now is to update the tests and as necessary request updated implementation reports.
glenn: I've already volunteered to make some changes to tests. Also I've just gone back and added "bug" label to #132 and #133 since I consider them to be bugs, as the reporter.
nigel: I think some people think the Editor should triage issues, set the status etc. Philippe, is there a consistent W3C approach?
plh: No, it varies across groups
depending on the dynamic in the group. I tend to prefer
everyone in the group to
... be empowered to fix things, but I understand not all groups
may work well that way.
nigel: Re issue #136, I made a proposal. Any views on that?
glenn: Sounds reasonable to
me.
... I think you're correct that we do need a normative
statement that says you cannot specify both profiles in
the
... same document using a ttp:profile element. That would be
inconsistent.
nigel: That's interesting - are
you suggesting that the example I constructed that includes
them both should be
... prohibited from being conformant?
glenn: If you had a document that
declared both profiles then if they landed on an IMSC processor
that only supports
... one profile then most likely it would be rejected. That may
be an unintended consequence.
nigel: Of course you're still permitted to omit any ttp:profile elements and be conformant.
glenn: I would suggest a SHOULD
recommendation that both profiles should not be included in the
same document.
... It does not have to be a SHALL.
nigel: My only contrived use case
is where you want a standard off the shelf 'empty document'
that can be used in
... any circumstance, for example in DASH streaming.
... I'm not sure how useful that is. An empty document could
signal neither profile.
<plh> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/
glenn: I'd have to think about
that some more. The intention is clearly not to allow documents
to combine both text
... and image content simultaneously.
glenn: Can we make a redirect that points from Mercurial to github?
plh: Yes, I can do that.
glenn: Within the repos there is
a spec/ directory within which there is an html document. We
need a stub file in
... both of those locations that points to the new
location.
plh: I can do that, maybe not today, but please chase me on Monday.
<scribe> ACTION: plh Create stub files to redirect from Hg to github for TTML1 and TTML2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-454 - Create stub files to redirect from hg to github for ttml1 and ttml2 [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-01-28].
atai: I also did this for the mapping document - I took a few lines from the IMSC directory and replaced the referenced spec.
nigel: Can I ask about date replacement in TTML2? We used the keywords replacement module in Hg. Have you put in a replacement for github?
glenn: I've done this using git-filters. I've added them under .gitfilters. You also need the config.
nigel: It would be good to update the README in the spec directory.
glenn: Ok I'll do that.
<scribe> ACTION: gadams Update TTML2 spec/README to include config for keyword replacement. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-455 - Update ttml2 spec/readme to include config for keyword replacement. [on Glenn Adams - due 2016-01-28].
nigel: We're out of time so I'll adjourn now. Thanks all. Meet same time again next week, 1 hour. [Adjourns meeting]