W3C

Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference

20 Jan 2016

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
kerry, robin, frans, Linda, ClemensPortele, aharth, ahaller2, joshlieberman, ChrisLittle, jtandy, SimonCox, MattPerry, AndreaPerego, ClausStadler
Regrets
Danh, Phil, Ed, Bart, Bill, Scott, Alejandro, Payam
Chair
kerry
Scribe
frans

Contents


<kerry> rragent, make logs public

<kerry> scribe: frans

<kerry> scribenick:frans

<kerry> scribenick: frans

<Linda> Thanks Kerry!

<joshlieberman> webex password?

<ChrisLittle> v4qtEh56

<scribe> chair:kerry

<scribe> chair: Kerry

<scribe> chair: kerry

<joshlieberman> Thanks ChrisLittle

<KJanowicz> Hi Kerry, can I very briefly talk 2 min about the workshop proposal?

PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes: https://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-sdw-minutes

<jtandy> +1

<ClemensPortele> +1

+1

<kerry> +1

<KJanowicz> +1

<ahaller2> I was attending last week, probably forgot present

<ChrisLittle> +1 minutes

<Linda> +1

<MattPerry> +1

<ahaller2> no problem

<ahaller2> +1

RESOLUTION: accept last weekÅ› minutes

patent call

<kerry> patent call: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

kerry: no comments on patent call

extra item: workshop

KJanowicz: SSN workshop will be held

KJanowicz organizes together with Josh

kerry: where and when?

<ahaller2> \ Can you post the link?

<KJanowicz> http://giscience.geog.mcgill.ca/

KJanowicz: Montreal 27 september - 30 september
... please send in ideas for the workshop

f2f

F2F meeting Amersfoort

kerry: I made a draft agenda
... copying the agenda in the IRC, please have a look

<kerry> http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Agenda_F2F3

kerry: people who are not going: please look at the times
... enough presence of SSN people is questioned

<SimonCox> I'll be a bit hit and miss on the wire

comments can be added to the wiki

<joshlieberman> Later in the day is certainly better for those in the US east.

ChrisLittle: need more time

<KJanowicz> can somebody post the wiki link to the list of participants for the F2F?

<AndreaPerego> Participants: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Attending_F2F3

<ahaller2> sounds good

jtandy: BP editors have some topics for the agenda
... they will ask for real world examples

kerry: chris, please make a suggestion for a time slot for time
... frans, please place request for UCR time on the wiki

<kerry> ack

Linda: start and end times?

kerry: I think it depends on the venue

Linda: I have the key so anything is possible

kerry: nine to six?
... and a lunch break

<ChrisLittle> +1 to 9-6 and lunch and coffees

<AndreaPerego> +1 from me

<ChrisLittle> * any hagelslaght?

ClausStadler: not certain of attendence yet

kerry: please put attendence on the wiki

SSN Modularisation: what does a good ontology modularisation look like? see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ssn-cg/2012Jun/0000.html

kerry: objection to SSN was complexity
... it is common to just use a bit of the vocabulary
... do people have ideas on good modularization?

<KJanowicz> +1

kerry: modularisation may be a topic in coverage and time as well

ahaller: horizontal and vertical modularization

<SimonCox> Good modularization: limit external dependencies

KJanowicz: event model (which?) is a good example

kerry: please post a link of the example

<KJanowicz> http://semanticweb.cs.vu.nl/2009/11/sem/

<KJanowicz> see, for instance, http://semanticweb.cs.vu.nl/2009/11/img/Fig1.jpg

<KJanowicz> +1

ahaller2: generally agrees, but there should not be too many modules

<ahaller2> ... and put all upper level relations in one module

kerry: what is modularisation? Is it multiple files?

aharth: different namespaces are probably needed

<ahaller2> +1

<KJanowicz> This is how we addressed the problem in Geolink: http://schema.geolink.org/

joshlieberman: imports could be a problem

<KJanowicz> +1

kerry: the point is being able to use just a bit, without bother from other stuff

<KJanowicz> it is more than that

<SimonCox> Namespace issue has nasty interaction with linked-data assumptions

joshlieberman: perhaps it is just a question of documentation and visualization

<KJanowicz> +1

ahaller2: memory consumption on lightweight devices is a factor

<SimonCox> disagree with @ahaller regarding motivation for modularization.

<KJanowicz> also logical implications

(I am sorry, I did not get the message)

<SimonCox> agree with KJanowicz - need to be able to remove unintended/unfortunate entailments

<KJanowicz> modularization also important to avoid strong 'ontological commitments'

kerry: no clear solution yet, but worthwhile to hear different views

ClausStadler: what about the data cube vocab?

<SimonCox> Yes - overlap with several other ontologies. OBOE, BCO

kerry: SSN predates data cube vocabulary

<SimonCox> BCO is aligned with BFO, so takes fundamental continuant/occurrent split as a starting point

kerry: not sure whether data cube affects modularization

SSN Tools: what tools for collaborative ontology editing? http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SSN_Tasks

<KJanowicz> also: avoid problems like whether we allow for virtual sensors or now

ahaller2: GitHub can be used, but webprotege has limitations

<KJanowicz> Why not use DL functional syntax first?

ahaller2: suggestions for online tools?

<ClausStadler> just one note: with git it would be possible to add e.g. a pre-commit hook which prevents being able to commit a non-validating file, but not sure if existing validators would fit your needs

jtandy: phil has looked around how others do it
... has one person been responsible. or were there more editors?

<KJanowicz> Lets not be driven by tools too early in the process

KJanowicz: start simple, like pen and paper

<KJanowicz> https://www.yworks.com/products/yed

Linda: in a Dutch project no online solution was found
... Topbraid and subversion was used in the end

<SimonCox> For collaborative editing/merging need effective diff mechanism!

<KJanowicz> Agreed but this is what you would have yed and other concept maps for

ahaller2: warns against shutting out people

<KJanowicz> the same will happen in protege, the axioms require an understanding of OWL

<SimonCox> Its not Turtle that is the issue, it is RDF!

ahaller: use webprotege only for classes and properties

<joshlieberman> It seems possible to work on both a graph level and an axiomatic level. The graph level is more accessible.

<KJanowicz> agree with Josh

joshlieberman: just the graph view could make the ontology more accesible

<SimonCox> How to ensure graph/axiom views are correctly synced?

<KJanowicz> We could use VOWL for that

kerry: axioms are probably the most of the work

<KJanowicz> http://vowl.visualdataweb.org/protegevowl.html

kerry: what is VOWL?

<joshlieberman> There is time-zone specific humor, apparently.

<ahaller2> the problem is with the Protege desktop version is that it will always scramble the source code

<SimonCox> +1 ahaller2

aharth: no strong opinion, no magic solution either

<SimonCox> Would be good if Protege joined the 21st century and used turtle instead of rdf/xml

kerry: afraid that this topic is not going to be resolved either

<Linda> Why not Topbraid then?

<KJanowicz> This is merely a serialization

<SimonCox> Canonical serialization ?

<ahaller2> does any23 produce a reliable serialisation?

<kerry> ACTION: ahaller2 to look at tools for ontology editing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-sdw-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-133 - to look at tools for ontology editing [on Armin Haller - due 2016-01-27].

<KJanowicz> IMHO our main challenge will be to develop a good formalization. Tools and serializations are secondary, lets make sure they do not hold us back.

Linda: topbraid has a free version

SimonCox: there is a limit on visualisation (diagrams)
... Topbraid does better serialization

<KJanowicz> Do they have a linux version?

<ClausStadler> i don't know about any23, but for comparing changes in RDF files I was using raptor to convert arbitrary rdf syntaxes (http://librdf.org/raptor/ | sudo apt-get install raptor2-utils) to ntriples followed by a sort - not sure what happens with blank nodes though (i try to avoid them, but with owl axioms it would be a pain)

<joshlieberman> http://lodlaundromat.org ?

<ClausStadler> (what andreas just says ;) )

<joshlieberman> Also possible to use one of the "alignment" tools as the diff generator.

aharth: if we use canonical RDF we can use different tools

<SimonCox> N-Triples is always most reliable route to canonical form, but least inspectable visually!

kerry: that would be an ideal solution

<KJanowicz> Aidan's paper http://www.www2015.it/documents/proceedings/proceedings/p430.pdf

sorry josh, I did not get that

<aharth> a quick way would be just sort an N-Triples file, if there are blank nodes, use the algorithm from: Aidan Hogan, "Skolemising Blank Nodes while Preserving Isomorphism", WWW conference 2015

kerry: josh, please note the idea in the wiki

Linda: the LOD Laundromat could be used to clean up RDF

<joshlieberman> Alignment tool example: LogMap -- http://csu6325.cs.ox.ac.uk/

kerry: time is up, next topic will be postponed
... reminder: please let us know about involvement in F2F meeting

<ChrisLittle> bye and thanks Kerry

<KJanowicz> bye bye

<AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye

<joshlieberman> bye and thanks

<ClemensPortele> bye!

<MattPerry> \quit

<kerry> bye!

bye

<kerry> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: ahaller2 to look at tools for ontology editing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-sdw-minutes.html#action01]
 

Summary of Resolutions

  1. accept last weekÅ› minutes
[End of minutes]