<jamesn> Happy New Year everyone

<jongund> thnaks

<scribe> scribe: AnnAbbott

<jamesn> scribe: annabbott

Review example of radio group pattern https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/aria/jemma/practices/examples/radio/radio.html

<MichielBijl> Teleconference cheat sheet: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet

Review draft of landmark design pattern (John/Ann)

<jongund> https://rawgit.com/jongund/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html

<LJWatson> Fragment ID for 2. Landmark design patterns https://rawgit.com/jongund/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#aria_landmark

Matt thinks widgets should come first, then landmarks

Ann does not agree

Matt: start with an example page
... refer to Section 4

<jamesn> rrsq+

JF: questions whether all content must be within appropriate landmark

Ann: guidance per RSchwerdtfeger

<Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to ask about clarity of advice regarding HTML5.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about editorial of the content, specifically "it is imperative that all content reside in a semantically meaningful landmark or content will be orphaned and

Matt: browsers and screen readers all handle landmarks differently

<mck> Without landmark roles, keyboard navigation is limited to form controls and anchor elements via "endless" tab navigation. The use of landmarks roles support

JamesN: all content musts be in landmarks IF using landmarks

Matt: landmarks don't help kbd nav except for screen reader users

JGund: landmarks should not be required
... landmarks do not solve kbd issues
... desire for something simple about landmarks - how to balance/support?

LWatson: what complexity?

JGund: test tools have lots of rules re: landmarks and HTML 5 has added to complexity

<jongund> http://fae20.cita.illinois.edu/rulesets/ARIA_STRICT/rc/#id_h2_ID_LANDMARKS

JF: problem is difference betwen rule and best practice
... difference between MUST and SHOULD

Matt: no MUST in APG tho required is loosely used
... pivot point is with ARIA 1.1 and our goal is publish APG with ARIA 1.1
... APG is guidance, not rules
... Jon/Ann make bulleted list of proposed items as basis of next discussion

JGund: rework current so there is something for others to comment/review

JF: not table of contents, but table of structure

Matt: lead with examples where ever possible

JGund: example pages is good idea

Matt: no meeting on Jan 18
... review landmarks on Jan 25

JGund: doesn't think we want to be in business of listing/cataloging tools

Ann: agrees

JGund: instead rely on/propose to W3C tools group

Matt: would recommend getting rid of toolkit references

<JF> +1 to BRyan's suggestion

Bryan: simply include URL to W3C tools group

<JF> Bryan, shadi's email is: shadi@w3.org

<JF> ACTION: bgaraventa1979 to reach out to Shadi to establish a link for ARIA tools to be included in the APG due in 2 weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/04-aria-apg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'bgaraventa1979'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.

<JF> ACTION: Brian Garaventa to reach out to Shadi to establish a link for ARIA tools to be included in the APG due in 2 weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/04-aria-apg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Brian'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.

zachim, take up item 3

zachim, take up agenda item 3

Discuss example development work in progress

<JF> ACTION: garaventa to reach out to Shadi to establish a link for ARIA tools to be included in the APG due in 2 weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/04-aria-apg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1764 - Reach out to shadi to establish a link for aria tools to be included in the apg due in 2 weeks [on Bryan Garaventa - due 2016-01-11].

<bgaraventa1979> John, I think my nick is bgaraventa

JGund: Jemma isn't here today so hasn't had a chance to meet

Matt: look at menu and radio group next week (1/11)

JGund: will work with Jemma on Friday

Matt: Michiel - will you be ready to review alert next week?

Michiel: yes

<jamesn> 1

Matt: next week toolbar review

Michiel: should we have breadcrumb design pattern?

JamesN: yes

<JF> Matt asked about "toolbar" - I don't see a reference in WCAG, but UAAG references it as a single word: 2.3.4 Present Direct Commands in User Interface: The user can have any direct commands in the UA user interface (e.g. keyboard shortcuts) be presented with their associated user interface controls (e.g. "Ctrl+S" displayed on the "Save" menu item and toolbar button). (Level AA)

<MichielBijl> Here is a link to the GitHub issue for bread crumbs: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/130

<JF> [discussion] editorial is to use "toolbar" (all one word)

<MichielBijl> rssagent, make minutes

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: AnnAbbott
Found Scribe: annabbott
Inferring ScribeNick: annabbott
Default Present: Michael_Cooper, jongund, JF, AnnAbbott, Bryan_Garaventa
Present: AnnAbbott Bryan_Garaventa JF James_Nurthen Jon_Gunderson Leonie_Watson Matt_King Michael_Cooper Michiel_Bijl
Got date from IRC log name: 04 Jan 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/01/04-aria-apg-minutes.html
People with action items: bgaraventa1979 brian garaventa

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