HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

08 Oct 2015

See also: IRC log


IanPouncey, Joanmarie_Diggs, Judy, LJWatson, Liam, ShaneM, bkardell_, chaals, janina, plh, JF
liam, JF, ljwatson


<trackbot> Date: 08 October 2015

Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

<janina> Webex code is 643 822 343

<chaals> scribe: liam

MAUR Update - Janina

JS: we sent out requests to our commenters to look at how we had handled the comments

We got several responses, varying from Great Job to Almost but please..., so another round of editing needed.

Then we can have a cfc on whether we want a note

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to talk about cleanup of MAUR

Charles: How long do you think it'll take?

JS: I'd like to have the CfC out today

Shane: yes

JS: so posibility of a note before TPAC, but no guarantees

Web Payments Followup -- Janina

JS: We're going to have a meeting between PF and Web Payments

People here would be welcome

We'll be talking about what the Web Payments API needs to do to support a11y; I'm happy to see WP suggest this meeting to PF

Don't yet have time,, probably friday morning

Shane: they'll be firming up their agenda on Monday

<ShaneM> In the web payments charter: "For any native implementation cited to establish interoperability success, the Working Group will work with the WAI Protocols and Formats Working Group (or its successor) to help communicate accessibility issues to the user agent developers. "

Alt Doc Update -- Janina, Shane, Liam

JS: I have action on alt to get wider review

we discussed it in PF yesterday. There was a request for a diff, which Shane produced (but it's huge!)

Still have to reach out to WCAG and EO.

<chaals> the diff...

TPAC Planning -- Janina, Et Al

JS: looking at the calendar for PF, best time I could find for us to have our discussion about the future of this TF ...

and how we manage oversightof activities on their way to Web Platform ...

is 4pm on Friday, knowing it's a bad time for 'phone into North America althogh OK for Europe

There are other options for PF

A good telecom into North America is probably not possible

Charles: agree Friday afternoon at TPAC is a rough time but I think it'd be useful

<janina> tpac+

<ShaneM> tpac+

<Judy> tpac+


<chaals> tpac+

<LJWatson> Will be at TPAC.

<joanie> tpac+

<MarkS> tpac+

<chaals> RESOLUTION: We will try to meet from 4pm friday at TPAC

Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al

LJWatson: we started working on introductory article, hope to get it published before TPAC

bkardell: also reached out to other teams, including Google and Polymer

The more heads we can get around it, and the more wide agreement we can find, the better off we are

JS: Looking at last week's minutes I think Charles mentioned, possibly this tab panels could result in the removal of detailsummary from HTML

DPub is very much in need of a long description mechanism with a wider scope than longdesc

and detail summary has turned into a strong candidate

Charles: at this stageit's an open question

detail/summary is very much a particular case of panels, with only one panel, and it'd be redundant

but question of timing too

<Zakim> Judy, you wanted to ask about (hoped for) progress on cross-browser implementation commitments for details

JS: want to determine this before ARIA 1.1 in CR

<janina> Long description options analysis at:

<janina> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/extended-description-analysis.html

Judy: will we get cross-browser implementation commitment for details?

<bkardell_> I don't really have a strong desire to "kill" anything in an existing spec, they can coexist there's just more or less universal overlap in that panel handles the main/only thing summary/details does

JS: details supported in safari & chrome

We believe there will not be a q with ff, dont' know about Edge

It will not show up in IE

bkardell: MS recently updated the status and say it's a medium priority and likely to develop in a future release

<bkardell_> https://dev.modern.ie/platform/status/detailssummary/

<Judy> JB hears that we are still hoping to hear interest from Msoft wrt Edge and details

be done

media controller

<JF> scribe: JF

CMN: Media Controller - is this at risk of being dropped?

JB: there has been a thread, which has popped up more than once, that media controller may be deprecated

this is needed for syncing w.r.t. sign-language

PLH is trying to get some input on the need

<plh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2015Mar/0006.html

PLH: rasied an issue back in March

it was not well tested, it slipped through the cracks

back in March, Blink decided to put the limited implementation behind a flag

it has not been implemented in FF or Edge

spent a lot of time looking at media requirements - one requirement was the need to support dual video for sign language

however, with only one implementation, it is at risk

<MarkS> media controller also provides a convenient mechanism for toggling an Audio Description audio track

JB: it looks like there were implementation issues, but one thing we are seeking is whether this was an issue for deaf users

if there are implementation issues that need to be addressed, it would be important to capture that

JS: the concern being rasied over the past week or so, indicates evidence that this is an important feature. A good implementation would fill a real need

CMN: pretty clear that vidoe sync for sign language is important. Question is whether Media Controller is required for the functionality

some discussion around whether this is a good thing or a bad thing to implement - if the spec itself is any good

dropping this may have bad consequences if it turns out this is the critical thing for the functionality

<chaals> ACTION: chaals investigate whether mediaController is really the critical piece for the functionality of synching sign-language videos, audio description, etc, or just a bit of spec… [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-338 - Investigate whether mediacontroller is really the critical piece for the functionality of synching sign-language videos, audio description, etc, or just a bit of spec… [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-10-15].

<chaals> scribe: ljwatson

JB: What will happen once Chaals talks to the browser vendors?

CMN: I'll report back here.

JB: What needs to happen in terms of the spec?

PLH: We'd need someone to write the implementation test.

JB: Ok, Chaals can we have a few more minutes to figure out - which tests we need etc.?

CMN: From memory you could write a handful of tests to determine the things we care about -synchronising SL versions with original content.

JS: Is this the same mechanism that would control external audio too?

CMN: Yes.
... Test would be to get a piece of original video, and try synchronising it with SL and AD alternatives.

JS: It would be ueful to have a video that we could use to test all kinds of features - SL, AD, captions etc.

CMN: W3C has created video. Could ask them to dig into the archives for something we could use.

PLH: A video of someone talking?

CMN: Yes.

JF: TPAC lightening talks from last TPAC.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to recall the lightning talks from last TPAC

TPAC lightening talks https://vimeo.com/album/3108947

<bkardell_> ^ there they are

JF: I will go through the TPAC talks to try and find a suitable video.

CMN: Anyone volunteering to write tests?

<plh> http://media.w3.org/2014/03/

JS: We could do this ourselves, but could also look at it as a fundable project.

CMN: Seems unlikely in the time we have available.

JF: What is the timeframe?

CMN: Probably a couple of weeks. The discussion is happening now.

<plh> http://media.w3.org/2011/11/

<chaals> RESOLUTION: We want to get some tests for synchronised alternatives to videos, and have videos at http://media.w3.org/2014/03/ to start from

JB: PLH, do the folks considering removing this feature know about the concern?

<plh> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/192

PLH: It's tracked in WHATWG.

CMN: Think no-one has raised the accessibility concern properly.

PLH: It has been raised.

JB: It hasn't been conclusively played out.

JF: Looking at the issue PLH posted, James Craig has already posted links to video content that we could look at.

<JF> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjln9OMOw-0

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: chaals investigate whether mediaController is really the critical piece for the functionality of synching sign-language videos, audio description, etc, or just a bit of spec… [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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Present: IanPouncey Joanmarie_Diggs Judy LJWatson Liam ShaneM bkardell_ chaals janina plh JF
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