15:00:13 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:00:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-html-a11y-irc
15:00:15 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:17 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:17 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:00:18 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:18 Date: 08 October 2015
15:00:25 agenda?
15:00:30 zakim, clear agenda
15:00:30 agenda cleared
15:00:58 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:01:01 agenda+ Agenda Edits & Additions
15:01:04 agenda+ MAUR Update - Janina
15:01:06 agenda+ Web Payments Followup -- Janina
15:01:09 agenda+ Alt Doc Update -- Janina, Shane, Liam
15:01:11 agenda+ TPAC Planning -- Janina, Et Al
15:01:14 agenda+ IMEs & ContentEditable -- Chaals
15:01:16 agenda+ Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al
15:01:19 agenda+ Bug Triage -- Leonie
15:01:21 agenda+ TF Open Actions http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track
15:01:24 agenda+ Other Business
15:01:26 agenda+ be done
15:01:55 zakim, next item
15:01:55 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:01:58 present+ janina
15:02:01 present+ LJWatson
15:02:14 chair: Chaals
15:02:47 Webex code is 643 822 343
15:02:50 present+ bkardell_
15:03:22 present+ chaals
15:03:26 zakim, agenda?
15:03:26 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:
15:03:28 1. Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina]
15:03:28 2. Agenda Edits & Additions [from janina]
15:03:28 3. MAUR Update - Janina [from janina]
15:03:29 4. Web Payments Followup -- Janina [from janina]
15:03:29 5. Alt Doc Update -- Janina, Shane, Liam [from janina]
15:03:29 6. TPAC Planning -- Janina, Et Al [from janina]
15:03:30 7. IMEs & ContentEditable -- Chaals [from janina]
15:03:30 8. Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al [from janina]
15:03:30 9. Bug Triage -- Leonie [from janina]
15:03:30 11. Other Business [from janina]
15:03:30 12. be done [from janina]
15:04:19 agenda+ media controller
15:04:26 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
15:04:35 present+ Liam
15:04:57 present+ ShaneM
15:05:18 scribe: liam
15:05:22 zakim, close item 1
15:05:22 agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
15:05:24 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:05:24 2. Agenda Edits & Additions [from janina]
15:05:25 zakim, close item 2
15:05:25 agendum 2, Agenda Edits & Additions, closed
15:05:26 I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:05:26 3. MAUR Update - Janina [from janina]
15:05:29 zakim, take up item 3
15:05:29 agendum 3. "MAUR Update - Janina" taken up [from janina]
15:05:56 JS: we sent out requests to our commenters to look at how we had handled the comments
15:06:12 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:06:26 We got several responses, varying from Great Job to Almost but please..., so another round of editing needed.
15:06:31 q+ about cleanup of MAUR
15:06:34 Then we can have a cfc on whether we want a note
15:06:35 present+ Judy
15:06:39 q+ to talk about cleanup of MAUR
15:07:23 ack ShaneM
15:07:23 ShaneM, you wanted to talk about cleanup of MAUR
15:07:29 Charles: How long do you think it'll take?
15:07:30 ack sh
15:07:38 JS: I'd like to have the CfC out today
15:07:39 Shane: yes
15:07:58 JS: so posibility of a note before TPAC, but no guarantees
15:08:00 zakim, close this item
15:08:00 agendum 3 closed
15:08:02 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:02 4. Web Payments Followup -- Janina [from janina]
15:08:06 zakim, take up item 4
15:08:06 agendum 4. "Web Payments Followup -- Janina" taken up [from janina]
15:09:03 JS: We're going to have a meeting between PF and Web Payments
15:09:11 People here would be welcome
15:09:36 We'll be talking about what the Web Payments API needs to do to support a11y; I'm happy to see WP suggest this meeting to PF
15:10:13 Don't yet have time,, probably friday morning
15:10:36 zakim, close this item
15:10:36 agendum 4 closed
15:10:36 Shane: they'll be firming up their agenda on Monday
15:10:37 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:10:37 5. Alt Doc Update -- Janina, Shane, Liam [from janina]
15:10:38 In the web payments charter: "For any native implementation cited to establish interoperability success, the Working Group will work with the WAI Protocols and Formats Working Group (or its successor) to help communicate accessibility issues to the user agent developers. "
15:10:51 zakim, take up item 5
15:10:51 agendum 5. "Alt Doc Update -- Janina, Shane, Liam" taken up [from janina]
15:10:54 present+ IanPouncey
15:10:56 JS: I have action on alt to get wider review
15:11:15 we discussed it in PF yesterday. There was a request for a diff, which Shane produced (but it's huge!)
15:11:30 Still have to reach out to WCAG and EO.
15:12:01 -> https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/alt-techniques-diff.html the diff...
15:12:32 zakim, close this item
15:12:32 agendum 5 closed
15:12:33 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:12:33 6. TPAC Planning -- Janina, Et Al [from janina]
15:12:39 zakim, take up item 6
15:12:39 agendum 6. "TPAC Planning -- Janina, Et Al" taken up [from janina]
15:13:12 JS: looking at the calendar for PF, best time I could find for us to have our discussion about the future of this TF ...
15:13:22 and how we manage oversightof activities on their way to Web Platform ...
15:13:36 plh has joined #html-a11y
15:13:42 is 4pm on Friday, knowing it's a bad time for 'phone into North America althogh OK for Europe
15:13:57 q+
15:13:58 There are other options for PF
15:14:16 present- ljwatson]
15:14:22 A good telecom into North America is probably not possible
15:15:01 Charles: agree Friday afternoon at TPAC is a rough time but I think it'd be useful
15:15:08 tpac+
15:15:11 tpac+
15:15:13 tpac+
15:15:14 tpac+
15:15:15 tpac+
15:15:18 Will be at TPAC.
15:15:22 tpac+
15:15:26 present+ plh
15:15:43 tpac+
15:16:27 RESOLUTION: We will try to meet from 4pm friday at TPAC
15:16:42 zakim, clsoe this item
15:16:42 I don't understand 'clsoe this item', chaals
15:16:49 zakim, close item 6
15:16:49 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chaals
15:16:52 q?
15:16:57 q-
15:17:02 zakim, close item 6
15:17:02 agendum 6, TPAC Planning -- Janina, Et Al, closed
15:17:03 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:17:03 7. IMEs & ContentEditable -- Chaals [from janina]
15:17:17 zakim, close item 7
15:17:17 agendum 7, IMEs & ContentEditable -- Chaals, closed
15:17:18 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:17:18 8. Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al [from janina]
15:17:36 zakim, take up item 8
15:17:36 agendum 8. "Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al" taken up [from janina]
15:17:49 q+
15:17:50 LJWatson: we started working on introductory article, hope to get it published before TPAC
15:18:07 agenda?
15:18:09 bkardell: also reached out to other teams, including Google and Polymer
15:18:18 zakim, close item 12
15:18:18 agendum 12, be done, closed
15:18:19 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:19 8. Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al [from janina]
15:18:24 The more heads we can get around it, and the more wide agreement we can find, the better off we are
15:18:25 ack ja
15:18:49 JS: Looking at last week's minutes I think Charles mentioned, possibly this tab panels could result in the removal of detailsummary from HTML
15:19:25 DPub is very much in need of a long description mechanism with a wider scope than longdesc
15:19:32 and detail summary has turned into a strong candidate
15:19:34 q+
15:19:47 Charles: at this stageit's an open question
15:20:12 detail/summary is very much a particular case of panels, with only one panel, and it'd be redundant
15:20:17 but question of timing too
15:20:23 q+ to ask about (hoped for) progress on cross-browser implementation commitments for details
15:20:42 ack me
15:20:55 ack ju
15:20:55 Judy, you wanted to ask about (hoped for) progress on cross-browser implementation commitments for details
15:21:02 JS: want to determine this before ARIA 1.1 in CR
15:21:37 Long description options analysis at:
15:21:38 http://www.w3.org/2015/08/extended-description-analysis.html
15:21:41 Judy: will we get cross-browser implementation commitment for details?
15:21:56 I don't really have a strong desire to "kill" anything in an existing spec, they can coexist there's just more or less universal overlap in that panel handles the main/only thing summary/details does
15:22:25 JS: details supported in safari & chrome
15:22:39 We believe there will not be a q with ff, dont' know about Edge
15:22:52 It will not show up in IE
15:23:07 JF has joined #html-a11y
15:23:22 Present+ JF
15:23:35 q+
15:23:45 ack bk
15:24:05 bkardell: MS recently updated the status and say it's a medium priority and likely to develop in a future release
15:24:11 https://dev.modern.ie/platform/status/detailssummary/
15:24:21 zakim, close item 8
15:24:21 agendum 8, Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al, closed
15:24:22 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:24:22 9. Bug Triage -- Leonie [from janina]
15:24:29 JB hears that we are still hoping to hear interest from Msoft wrt Edge and details
15:24:32 zakim, close item 9
15:24:32 agendum 9, Bug Triage -- Leonie, closed
15:24:33 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:24:33 11. Other Business [from janina]
15:24:40 zakim, take up item 12
15:24:40 agendum 12. "be done" taken up [from janina]
15:24:48 zakim, agenda?
15:24:48 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:24:49 11. Other Business [from janina]
15:24:49 13. media controller [from chaals]
15:24:55 zakim, take up item 13
15:24:55 agendum 13. "media controller" taken up [from chaals]
15:25:27 scribe: JF
15:25:59 CMN: Media Controller - is this at risk of being dropped?
15:26:23 JB: there has been a thread, which has popped up more than once, that media controller may be deprecated
15:26:38 this is needed for syncing w.r.t. sign-language
15:26:50 PLH is trying to get some input on the need
15:27:02 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2015Mar/0006.html
15:27:13 PLH: rasied an issue back in March
15:27:40 it was not well tested, it slipped through the cracks
15:27:56 back in March, Blink decided to put the limited implementation behind a flag
15:28:26 it has not been implemented in FF or Edge
15:28:52 spent a lot of time looking at media requirements - one requirement was the need to support dual video for sign language
15:29:02 however, with only one implementation, it is at risk
15:29:13 q+
15:29:21 ack ju
15:29:37 media controller also provides a convenient mechanism for toggling an Audio Description audio track
15:29:57 JB: it looks like there were implementation issues, but one thing we are seeking is whether this was an issue for deaf users
15:30:16 if there are implementation issues that need to be addressed, it would be important to capture that
15:30:33 q+
15:31:05 JS: the concern being rasied over the past week or so, indicates evidence that this is an important feature. A good implementation would fill a real need
15:31:27 ack me
15:32:07 CMN: pretty clear that vidoe sync for sign language is important. Question is whether Media Controller is required for the functionality
15:32:30 some discussion around whether this is a good thing or a bad thing to implement - if the spec itself is any good
15:33:16 dropping this may have bad consequences if it turns out this is the critical thing for the functionality
15:33:46 ACTION: chaals investigate whether mediaController is really the critical piece for the functionality of synching sign-language videos, audio description, etc, or just a bit of spec…
15:33:46 Created ACTION-338 - Investigate whether mediacontroller is really the critical piece for the functionality of synching sign-language videos, audio description, etc, or just a bit of spec… [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-10-15].
15:34:04 Q+
15:34:13 ack jf
15:34:34 scribe: ljwatson
15:34:56 zakim, close item 13
15:34:56 agendum 13, media controller, closed
15:34:57 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:34:57 11. Other Business [from janina]
15:36:01 zakim, take up item 13
15:36:01 agendum 13. "media controller" taken up [from chaals]
15:36:22 JB: What will happen once Chaals talks to the browser vendors?
15:36:30 CMN: I'll report back here.
15:36:40 JB: What needs to happen in terms of the spec?
15:36:53 PLH: We'd need someone to write the implementation test.
15:37:05 JB: Ok, Chaals can you feed into that - which tests we need etc.?
15:37:57 CMN: From memory you could write a handful of tests to determine the things we care about -synchronising SL versions with original content.
15:38:05 s/can you feed into that/can we have a few more minutes to figure out/
15:38:31 JS: Is this the same mechanism that would control external audio too?
15:38:34 CMN: Yes.
15:39:06 CMN: Test would be to get a piece of original video, and try synchronising it with SL and AD alternatives.
15:40:27 q+
15:40:30 JS: It would be ueful to have a video that we could use to test all kinds of features - SL, AD, captions etc.
15:40:57 CMN: W3C has created video. Could ask them to dig into the archives for something we could use.
15:41:05 Q+ to recall the lightning talks from last TPAC
15:41:28 PLH: A video of someone talking?
15:41:42 CMN: Yes.
15:41:55 JF: TPAC lightening talks from last TPAC.
15:41:56 ack me
15:42:07 ack jf
15:42:07 JF, you wanted to recall the lightning talks from last TPAC
15:43:10 TPAC lightening talks https://vimeo.com/album/3108947
15:43:47 ^ there they are
15:43:50 Q+
15:44:02 ack jf
15:44:42 JF: I will go through the TPAC talks to try and find a suitable video.
15:44:52 CMN: Anyone volunteering to write tests?
15:45:11 http://media.w3.org/2014/03/
15:45:32 JS: We could do this ourselves, but could also look at it as a fundable project.
15:45:47 CMN: Seems unlikely in the time we have available.
15:46:13 rrsagent, make minutes
15:46:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:46:19