Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

28 Apr 2015

See also: IRC log


Joshue, Makoto, EricE, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, +1.313.390.aaaa, Mike_Elledge, Kenny, +1.650.253.aabb, Marc_Johlic, Louis_Chan, cstrobbe, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, David_MacDonald, James_Nurthen, Loretta, Daniel_Frank, Louis_Cheng, adam_solomon, Josh_OConnor
Katie Haritos-Shea


<trackbot> Date: 28 April 2015

<Kenny> Survey for issue sorting: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/IssueSorting/

<Kenny> s/ Survey for issue sorting: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/IssueSorting/ //

<Joshue108> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 28 April 2015

<Joshue108> http://irc.w3.org

<Joshue108> #wai-wcag

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<Louis> I've muted

<scribe> Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea

<scribe> ScribeNick: Ryladog

<scribe> Meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference

Quickref update 5mns

<scribe> Chair: Andrew Kirkpatrick

AWK: A person from Google has joined

LC: Louis Cheng from the Google Accessibility Team

AWK: Thank you. Welcome

<Daniel_Frank> aacc is Daniel_Frank


<yatil> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015AprJun/0092.html

EE: I sent a few hours ago and update to the QuickRef. We did additional work in EO
... I just wanted to give you a headsup to look at it and bring us your feedback
... Look at the email here - please comment and participate
... We will do user testing at the AccessU conference in two weeks
... Send in comments using the GitHubn issue or send email to the WAI editors
... The design and functionality will change
... I iwll try to update as prompty as possible

AWK: You want us to do GitHub issue?

<yatil> wai-eo-editors@w3.org

EE: Yes o email to the WAI Editors group

Discussion of issues presented by Makoto: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/89

AWK: We have some issue that were presented by Makoto

Issue # 89

AWK: ultimately we are going to need someone to take on a coherent response
... Social Plugins - issue of High Contrrast mode. Which is actually an open issue on it s own
... For iframe for title
... Central Plugins - what do you tell developers in Japan if they are using these plugin such as Like This
... If you want to like something on FB do you have to use there button to do it.

DM: Most of the time I have just told the deveelopers to go into the widget and fix it. If it is inside an iframe sometimes that is a problem

AWK: Users may not have control becasue of the way it is put in. It seems like devldopers should have options

<Mike_Elledge> !

<Mike_Elledge> A boring farting saw?

AWK: My gut is that I am concerned about having in any set of rules - if what hey give you is not accessible
... If you are a developer using FB or PayPal

<Daniel_Frank> You may have conflicts with branding requirements

MC: Third party content is loadedd and you have no control over wwhat gets loaded
... Gregg said that there is always a way around the rules. We cant prevent them from doing so

DM; It is senseible _ I do not think that we can allow - if it is not meeting WGAC you cannot claim conformance

LGR: The sstatement of partial conformnce - is a ststement of NOT conforming
... It is supposed to be asserting tht the content you have control over - you do what you caan but in some instance you have no control ove the content
... The author i making a decision about what technilogies and what contnet to include

<Joshue108> +q to ask if the definition of what third party content is, is the same internationally?

LGR: Partial conformance
... It may not conform to WCAG

Adam: What is no control. Scripting you can almost control everything. It is usually third party widgets.

LGR: You still have control to use that script library
... Somebody made that decision

Adam: what about a blog - myou should be able to determine the rendering

LGR: Would you provide alt text

Adam: tthe script could provide an alt

LGR: In which case you might be able to claim full conformance

Adam: should we be more charitable to not have to use script to fix everything?

<David> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#conformance-partial

LGR: I think people use this to claim partial conformance

Adam: Regadrless, you have to give 100%?

LGR: Yes

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask if the definition of what third party content is, is the same internationally?

JO: The definition of third party contnet does it vary across domains? Second, the definition of TPC are in flux and continue to be

<David> From Defn: A "statement of partial conformance" may be made that the page does not conform, but could conform if certain parts were removed. "Fron Dfn

JO: Video Player - you have the responsibility to chose a n accessible video player - that is TPC

DM: I agreeee with Loretta. It all came up becasue of AOL and Don lobbied that hsd some sort of a ststement
... If you remove this part that it would be acceptable

<AWK> Katie: point about govs is that they are using this

<Joshue108> KHS: You need to be careful about the tech you are using

<AWK> ... devs are responsible for technologies used

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to say that developers can't fix everything. Easy if there is a button, much harder if there is a map or complex UI.

AWK: I agree but there is also - yes you should have an accessible Like button, an accessible video player - sometimes it is very difficlut
... If there is a map I want to add and reference _ iam not going to fix it, that is where I would start talking about partial conformance
... Updated without notice
... If you use script to tfix it and they change the code..
... Makoto added a question
... What do you need from the group?

Makoto: JIS has the same requirement for Partial Conformance Claim - but so many sites use these widgets - scoping out is not a good situation
... Widgets are very popular - II want the WG to clarify that these widgets apply to the TPC or not

AWK: It seems that people say maybe

Makoto: Even if they can fix it - they dont want to modigy the code

<Loretta> makoto, can someone work with the providers of these plugins and code?

Makoto: I understand if you cant just fix the code
... They think they cant be responsible for the modification

AWK: Why ?

<Joshue108> KHS: Its not their code?

Makoto: It is not there responsibility - maybe. If they modify the code

LGR: I certainly understand they want to use the code as it is -but it will not be accessible to many people. I would like to think that they will put pressure on the pople to fix the code

AWK: I guess bwhat we can do - we can write up a response to this issue - and we can submit it that way - maybe there might be a change to the Understanding document remains to be seen
... We can offer some clarification and empg=haisis that says - if you can modify the code it is gojing to count a s TPC
... PartialConformance is a stsement of Non-coonformanece

JO: One of the ways around TPC is to require a business case as a driver for accessibility best practices - not just accessibility

<AWK> sNon-coonformanece/Non-conformance

JO: Make that a statement about your website

AWK: Who wants to volunteer to take on Issue 89

DM: I can

AWK: Yu do too many of these

LGR: I will do it

<scribe> ACTION: Loretta will take on a response for Issue #89 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-308 - Will take on a response for issue #89 [on Loretta Guarino Reid - due 2015-05-05].

AWK: Thank you Loretta
... Some one will add you Loretta with a gitHub account let us know

<AWK> Issue 82: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/82

<AWK> (send in your git account)

Survey for issue sorting: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/IssueSorting/

AWK: I had trouble getting to the wiki this weekebd

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/IssueSorting/

I am forbidden for this URL?

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Post_WCAG_2_Issues_Sorted

<Mike_Elledge> I'm forbidden. :^(

AWK: Basically we have a bunch of Issue on the Post WCAG 2 Issue List which is the new wiki page that I just put in IRC
... Whether this changes or extends WCAG 2 we will make determinations about
... Row 14 is already filled out, please use that as an example

<David> last column should be yes or no... according to the definition at top of page

AWK: Do we want to extend or update, put in proposed solution. LIke this onne move from double A to single A . Th is actually a change. Without the extensuion
... If it was moved to a AAA it would no longer meet WCAG on its own
... I think we all agree but what we want to do - we actually need to get more data

<Joshue108> KHS: It makes sense but the final column is asking for yes or no.

AWK: Yes it does.
... Thanks David

DM: I like it. I think it is a good apraoch

<Mike_Elledge> +1

AWK: We need people to answer the survey
... Go now and sign up for 5 rows
... Then later on down the road, there is basically a blog post or an article where sommeone has made between 1 and 48,000 suggestion s to improve WCAG
... I will modify this page when folks sign up for their rows
... When you do one of those rows you will edit the wiki and add some rows based on the different issue
... If they have 30 different things - you do not have to do all of them just akes the rows that we will solve a s goup
... Just look at the article and look for actionable suggestions - add those to a new row and someone will come up with e response as to what we might ddo bout it
... Grab the actionable things and does it fit into an extension - what/how migh we be able to incorpoarte
... We are focused now on what things might actually go into the Extensions

JO: Somethings might loook very detailed or technical - they might be more simple than that

AWK; As a working grou we need all memebrs to get involved

AWK: Both Josh and I will

ME: You are going to add a column - and we will put in our names for what we want to take a look at?

AWK; We ll I will be looking at the Survey first

AWK; It should be available now

DM: What if two people hve chosen the same row?

AWK: Talk to me
... We have enough people - it would be good if at least two people signed up to get a broader view
... It is OK if two people sign up for the same thing

Open GitHub Issues

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/

Item 2 - Issues List

AWK: These issues need some kind of review

<Joshue108> 83, 84, 86, 69

AWK: Issue #86

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86

AWK; This is Davids

AWL: #84 Mark you submitted the question about this

MJ: I was looking for feedback on this topic
... What are others seeing?
... Are we going to need new techniques to cover these new CSS generated content issues

AWK: #83

MJ: I will put them out and ask folks to give feedback on these two

AWK: Are there any other ones?
... Draft Technniques
... That is what I had for the agenda

Charter Update

<Daniel_Frank> AWK: My github account: https://github.com/danielmfrank

AWK: That discussion is still going on. I would not expect any change to our status - there is a meeting on May 7th in Paris
... The feedback we have so far is positive - but there is a lot of debte on other WAI charters
... Anything else?
... We are done. 15 minutes early. You could do the survey items

<Mike_Elledge> thanks all! Katie I owe you one. :^)


<Daniel_Frank> Me, too!

<scribe> Chair: Andrew Kirkpatrick

trackbot, status?

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Loretta will take on a response for Issue #89 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2015/04/28 16:26:19 $

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Found Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
Found ScribeNick: Ryladog
Default Present: Joshue, Makoto, EricE, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, +1.313.390.aaaa, Mike_Elledge, Kenny, +1.650.253.aabb, Marc_Johlic, Louis_Chan, cstrobbe
Present: Joshue Makoto EricE Andrew_Kirkpatrick +1.313.390.aaaa Mike_Elledge Kenny +1.650.253.aabb Marc_Johlic Louis_Chan cstrobbe Katie_Haritos-Shea Michael_Cooper David_MacDonald James_Nurthen Loretta Daniel_Frank Louis_Cheng adam_solomon Josh_OConnor
Found Date: 28 Apr 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: loretta

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