W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

17 Feb 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joshue, +1.978.760.aaaa, Kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, Marc_Johlic, cstrobbe, EricE, +1.313.390.aabb, Mike_Elledge, Mike_Pluke, Cooper, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
Regrets
Kun, Zhang, DavidMacD
Chair
Joshue
Scribe
Moe K

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 17 February 2015

<Joshue> Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<Joshue> http://www.git-scm.com/book/en/v2

<Mike_Pluke> Can't (yet) get audio connected - no chance to enter passcode

<Mike_Elledge> +1

<Joshue> Scribenick: Moe K

<yatil> Scribe: Moe K

<yatil> Scribenick: MoeKraft

Publication approval of Techniques and Understanding documents.

Joshue: Call to publish shiny and new techniques document

<marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/17thFeb2015/

<marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/17thFeb2015/results

Joshue: Looking through results we have several thumbs up, typos found by Christoph
... No showstoppers though?

Christoph: There are no show stoppers

Joshue: Any objections to publishing the updated techniques and understanding?

RESOLUTION: Workgroup has approved publication of Techniques and Understanding documents

Publication Approval of Tables tutorial

Joshue: Relates to tutorials final review
... Tables tutorials is ready for final review and approval
... Mostly thumbs up
... Mike has entered some comments

<jon_avila> It is very passive voice.

MikeP: Second bullet referred to is missing any meaning.
... Just people using alternate ways to access the data
... I think what it is trying to say, "people can use alternate ways to access the data, for example,"
... Probably just a simple fix

Joshue: Please take a look at link from Eric, aka yatil, posted in IRC

People using alternate ways to access the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently, can change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids.

yatil: I have changed the sentence after the comma

MikeP: Yes, that works

<marcjohlic> +1

+1

<Kathy> +1

Joshue: Looks a bit funny

John: I think it is a bit passive and not very easy to read

<Joshue> ack [IP

John: Maybe split it up into two sentences

Joshue: What's a good first sentence?

<cstrobbe> Proposal: Some people use alternate ways to access the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids. (...)

John: Some people use alternative ways to access the data such as custom style sheets to emphasize header cells. This allows the user to change text size and colors and display information as lists rather than girds.

<cstrobbe> Revised proposal: Some people use alternative ways to render the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids. (...)

Joshue: I wouldn't say that using Style sheets is an alternate way to access data. This is a concern for me

Mike: A little confusing to me too

<Joshue> +1 to Christophe text

<jon_avila> UAAG says "user style sheets"

Mike: I'm not sure it reminds me of turning off CSS but not sure what this has to do with tables
... Confusing going from tables to list.

Joshue: People use alternate ways to render data... is more appropriate

Christoph: Revised proposal: Some people use alternative ways to render the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids.

John: refer to user style sheets
... fine with display or render but would like to remove passive voice

Joshue: Maybe we say alternate style sheets are used to display data

<Mike_Pluke> +1

<jon_avila> or People may use...

<marcjohlic> +1 to Christophe's revised proposal

+1 to Christophe's revised proposal

<Kathy> +1

Joshue: Maybe need a third bullet for structure

+1

<jon_avila> +1

<Loretta> +1

<Mike_Pluke> +1 to Christoph

<yatil> +1

<Joshue> +1 with the addition of something about structure

<Mike_Elledge> +1

Mike: The first of the two bullets about screen readers is in passive voice too so we lack consistency though.

<Joshue> MK: Are we going to add the last sentence?

RESOLUTION: Adopt Christophe's edits: Revised proposal: Some people use alternative ways to render the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids. In order to allow alternative renderings, table code needs to be properly structured.

Joshue: Mike are you fine with this:

?

Mike: I am fine with this

RESOLUTION: WG approves publication of the Tables tutorial

Quickref update

Images Tutorial

<yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/images/complex/#description-containing-textual-information

yatil: Complaint was chart data was table and we used aria-describedby
... aria-describedby is read out like a string

<yatil> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA15.html

yatil: We've added another example that only uses a paragraph of text as long description. This is just a heads up regarding the additional example.
... Related to ARIA Technique 15
... There is currently no note that this is not elegant for structured data
... Problem if you do not have structured data to describe the chart you really cannot make out the data. This is undesirable.

Joshue: Great stuff
... Eric was giving us a heads up about this images tutorial. We don't need a long review path.
... Will not do another feedback pass about this. Please let us know if you have any furhter questions or comments on Eric's changes by the end of the call

Quickref

yatil: There is some progress and I am ready to show you an early mock up
... I will send out tomorrow using the mailing list to get some feedback next week
... It's really early but we would like to get some feedback at CSUN

Joshue: Looking forward to see that

Update on Mobile TF note

Joshue: Kathy this is all full steam ahead, correct?

Kathy: The main difference is the appendix for Mobile was too close to Quickref. Eventually incorporate into quickref with a filter. Since this is a note we need a lot of flags for styling. Summary: Appendix and styling has changed slightly.
... We are ready for publication

<Joshue> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/MobileQuickRef.html

Joshue: Any comments or questions for Kathy?
... We don't need a formal working group review of this?

Kathy: No.
... Just wanted to note that we changed the styling

<Joshue> +q

Mike: I noticed when I was looking for resources on Mobile protocol for accessibility I found a WCAG 2.0 criteria and compared to what BBC has put together. Just suggesting if there is an interest to put a reference to the BBC document

<Joshue> -q

Kathy: We do provide references and we have documentation on the wiki that is open to the public

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page

MikeP: I do most work with European Telecommunications Institute. Not as well put together as BBC. We are overlapping with W3C work. Some work being down with how mobile technologies can be used by persons with a cognitive impairment.
... Talking to Judy about interests in what is going on with Cognitive WG.

<Joshue> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/

Kathy: Any feedback you have for the Mobile task force we appreciate it.

Joshue: The task force door is always open if you want to get more involved
... Also, to move forward we are looking for help with schematic gap analysis

James: This quick reference that is posted, is that what we should look at.

Kathy: this is part of the note being published

<Joshue> s/jim/james

James: Seems like a really old version
... I don't see ARIA techniques

Kathy: There were ARIA techniques but having issues under Android. We are now focusing on HTML and other techniques.

James: Just seems like an old version of quickref

Kathy: noted
... Idea was to get something out before CSUN
... For example, aria-describedby does not work on Android.

James: Don't like to see it go out without ARIA

Kathy: Has been approved to publish draft but I will make a note about ARIA techniques

James: Drafts are fine. Just want to make sure we don't publish without ARIA

Joshue: Worth saying that if James is aware of ARIA for mobile it would be good to get his input on Mobile techniques or identify where there are gaps.

James: Problem is that Android ecosystem is diverse

Joshue: Good call today. We got approval to publish techniques, got approval to publish tables tutorial, will receive a draft of the Quickref.
... Would like to wrap up early.

<Mike_Elledge> bye!

<jamesn> s/Jim/James/g

<cstrobbe> 下次再聊

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: Joshue, +1.978.760.aaaa, Kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, Marc_Johlic, cstrobbe, EricE, +1.313.390.aabb, Mike_Elledge, Mike_Pluke, Cooper, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
Present: Joshue +1.978.760.aaaa Kathy Katie_Haritos-Shea MoeKraft Marc_Johlic cstrobbe EricE +1.313.390.aabb Mike_Elledge Mike_Pluke Cooper [IPcaller] James_Nurthen
Regrets: Kun Zhang DavidMacD
Found Date: 17 Feb 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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