Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

05 Feb 2015

See also: IRC log


nigel, jdsmith, glenn, pal, tmichel
atai, Frans


<trackbot> Date: 05 February 2015

<scribe> chair: nigel

<scribe> scribeNick: nigel

This meeting

nigel: Add to the agenda the DVB liaison message
... AOB?

group: No AOB

nigel: Also add TTML2 FPWD publication
... I suggest we do external stuff first (liaisons), the F2F, then the FPWD publication



<trackbot> action-360 -- Nigel Megitt to Send liaison request on behalf of w3c ttwg to arib -- due 2014-12-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/360

close action-360

<trackbot> Closed action-360.

nigel: We've also had a liaison from DVB


nigel: Goes through the message from DVB
... It seems that in the context of IMSC 1 we can acknowledge this and offer continuing assistance.
... However there's a constituency in this WG who may wish to make additional comments
... regarding WebVTT. So I propose we do not draft a response immediately but raise this
... possibility on the reflector.

pal: I think we just need to thank DVB for the message.

nigel: I sent a simple acknowledgement of receipt - I'll forward it to the member list.
... It's now at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2015Feb/0001.html

pal: I think that's sufficient.

nigel: Apologies for not sending that to the member reflector earlier.


<trackbot> action-369 -- Nigel Megitt to Collate smpte issues and draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a precursor to a liaison -- due 2015-02-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/369

This is a work in progress - I'm going through it at the moment.

nigel: I've collated the issues together and need to go through TTML2 to derive the draft
... dispositions.

pal: We should respond to the member comments about the DECE tests, which don't include
... the expected results, so a brief message asking for those test criteria would be worthwhile.

nigel: Thanks pal for the draft words - I'm happy to send that as is, to our liaison, who is Mike.

<scribe> ACTION: nigel Send DECE liaison asking for IMSC 1 test criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-370 - Send dece liaison asking for imsc 1 test criteria [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-02-12].

Face 2 Face

nigel: We discussed this last week - any updates on hosting?

jdsmith: I'm discussing this still and am optimistic. 9th and 10th April?

nigel: Yes. those are the dates.

glenn: I have a tentative approval to look into it by a funding source so I need to contact
... a couple of hotels in Vegas and get a price on a room for budget assessment.
... I'll do that today or tomorrow.

jdsmith: If I were hosting it would be in Redmond.

nigel: It seems a bit more practical for some folk if we are in Vegas so I propose to make that
... the primary location, and if it isn't available then we take Jerry's kind offer secondarily.

jdsmith: Sure. I'll line it up just in case.

nigel: Just checking, is it okay for a non-member org to sponsor this?

tmichel: I don't see why it would be a problem - I'll get back to you in a few days.

nigel: Is Netflix a member of W3C?

several: yes they are

<scribe> ACTION: nigel Create a meeting page on the wiki for the F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-371 - Create a meeting page on the wiki for the f2f [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-02-12].

TTML2 FPWD publication

nigel: Glenn has provided a zip with the FPWD in. It has some link errors to rectify.

glenn: I'll process those this morning, and then provide a publishable version suitable for
... publication on the 10th.

tmichel: There are also namespace issues as well as the broken links. Maybe put some special
... placeholder text in for the namespace?

glenn: I'll handle that - it should be easy enough. Just a reminder - we're not changing the
... namespace for TTML2. It's the same as TTML1. So we may not need to do anything there.

tmichel: Thank you. Apart from that the publication request is ready to go as soon as I receive
... the edited draft. So send it to me by email as an attachment or something like that.

glenn: okay.

IMSC Test Suite

pal: I think the next step is to request the additional information from DECE and then I think
... it will be substantially complete, so maybe we can discuss how to reach out more formally
... to other organisations to suggest that they come and try it. It would be good to wait for the
... extra information from DECE.



<trackbot> issue-210 -- The values for alpha in rgba() don't correspond to CSS3 Color definitions -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/210

glenn: We did the RGBA values before CSS3 color was finalised - this has to do with the alpha
... values. When CSS got around to doing RGBA they used 0-255 values for alpha, which is different.
... I propose to close this without action because this can be dealt with as part of the process
... to map to HTML/CSS. It's worth emphasising the difference in the text to make authors and
... users aware of it.

nigel: Is it in the text now?

glenn: There's no note that emphasises the difference. I could add that easily enough.

nigel: I agree it's helpful to put that in.

reopen issue-210

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-210.

issue-210: [meeting 2015-02-05] Resolution is to add an editorial note to readers highlighting the difference in scale of alpha value.

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-210 The values for alpha in rgba() don't correspond to CSS3 Color definitions.


<trackbot> issue-224 -- Support text placement in 3D coordinate spaces (not zIndex compositing). -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/224

glenn: It's my intention to update the tts:disparity to permit negative values now.

nigel: Negative values make the image appear further away.

pal: That's correct - it has to be used sparingly though for viewer comfort. To be clear, I'd look
... at the SMPTE spec which is consistent with the CEA spec too.

nigel: It's also consistent in sign with the ETSI spec.

issue-224: [meeting 2015-02-05] Needs to support negative values.

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-224 Support text placement in 3D coordinate spaces (not zIndex compositing)..

reopen issue-224

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-224.


<trackbot> issue-283 -- Deterministic text wrapping and presentation -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/283

nigel: Glenn's proposal is that the option of downloadable fonts gets us as far as we can along
... this path. I don't have any further proposals.

glenn: I noticed that there's a notice from pal from Nov 2013 to add informative text on controlling
... line breaks. I didn't notice that before. Is there any specific wording?

pal: I can imagine that the wording should be something along the lines that line breaks
... should be manually inserted with <br>s to achieve the desired expectation?

nigel: If you set tts:wrap="noWrap" then it's true that this defines the line breaks completely.

glenn: I'm not averse to adding a note here.

pal: So maybe that note isn't so useful because of that.

nigel: From my perspective it would be worth highlighting that fonts are helpful but not the
... whole story. The author might want to leave some extra margin for safety to ensure that the
... region is big enough to hold the text as the author intended it to be displayed.
... This is regardless of the use of automatic or manual line breaks.

glenn: I can imagine adding a note to the section that describes UAX14 wrapping.
... It's §11.3.2.
... "Line Layout". We could add a note under that, for authorial techniques for dealing with line
... breaks.

nigel: I think that's a good idea - it's helpful to provide information to minimise the impact of
... undefined implementation algorithms.

issue-283: [meeting 2015-02-05] Resolution: add an editorial note to guide authors and implementors to §11.3.2 Line Layout.

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-283 Deterministic text wrapping and presentation.

reopen issue-283

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-283.


<trackbot> issue-289 -- For TTML created for overlay on top of video, signal the aspect ratio of the video the TTML was created for -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/289

glenn: For both this one and issue-290 I added a ttm:item name that are in the current draft for review.
... It was my intention that those metadata items will address this issue.
... Also, it's somewhat related to the new ttp:parameter called storageAspectRatio so they could
... be viewed as related and some additional text may be needed to both places in the document
... to explain why both exist and how they relate to each other and what the usage is.
... The format doesn't explain the value syntax - that's tbd.

nigel: That holds it up though - we need that to complete the issue.

glenn: We have an Editorial Note for this so that's not needed.

nigel: I'm happy with the process overhead of keeping the issue open
... I think there's a review comment on this that the syntax is important - to do.
... Thanks all, have a good week until we meet again, same time next week. [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: nigel Create a meeting page on the wiki for the F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: nigel Send DECE liaison asking for IMSC 1 test criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2015/02/05 16:13:22 $