IRC log of tt on 2015-02-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:00:00 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
15:00:02 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:00:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tt
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:05 [trackbot]
Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
15:00:05 [trackbot]
Date: 05 February 2015
15:02:31 [nigel]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:31 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, nigel
15:02:33 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, jdsmith, glenn, nigel, trackbot
15:02:46 [glenn]
zakim, this is 8865
15:02:46 [Zakim]
ok, glenn; that matches SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM
15:02:53 [nigel]
chair: nigel
15:03:03 [glenn]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jdsmith, nigel, +1.650.458.aaaa, +1.720.897.aabb
15:03:06 [tmichel]
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15:03:16 [glenn]
zakim, aabb is me
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+glenn; got it
15:03:39 [pal]
pal has joined #tt
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15:04:05 [nigel]
Present: nigel, jdsmith, glenn, pal, tmichel
15:04:28 [nigel]
Regrets: atai
15:04:33 [nigel]
chair: nigel
15:04:36 [nigel]
scribeNick: nigel
15:04:42 [tmichel]
zakim, ??P18 is me
15:04:42 [Zakim]
+tmichel; got it
15:04:45 [glenn]
zakim, who's noisy?
15:04:56 [Zakim]
glenn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: nigel (30%), tmichel (34%)
15:05:10 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
15:05:41 [nigel]
nigel: Add to the agenda the DVB liaison message
15:05:44 [nigel]
nigel: AOB?
15:05:55 [nigel]
group: No AOB
15:06:04 [nigel]
nigel: Also add TTML2 FPWD publication
15:07:30 [nigel]
nigel: I suggest we do external stuff first (liaisons), the F2F, then the FPWD publication
15:07:38 [nigel]
Topic: Liaisons
15:07:43 [nigel]
15:07:43 [trackbot]
action-360 -- Nigel Megitt to Send liaison request on behalf of w3c ttwg to arib -- due 2014-12-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:07:43 [trackbot]
15:08:02 [nigel]
close action-360
15:08:02 [trackbot]
Closed action-360.
15:08:50 [nigel]
nigel: We've also had a liaison from DVB
15:09:45 [nigel]
15:10:10 [tmichel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate tmichel
15:13:29 [nigel]
nigel: Goes through the message from DVB
15:14:41 [nigel]
nigel: It seems that in the context of IMSC 1 we can acknowledge this and offer continuing assistance.
15:15:02 [nigel]
... However there's a constituency in this WG who may wish to make additional comments
15:15:17 [nigel]
... regarding WebVTT. So I propose we do not draft a response immediately but raise this
15:15:23 [nigel]
... possibility on the reflector.
15:17:47 [nigel]
pal: I think we just need to thank DVB for the message.
15:17:59 [nigel]
nigel: I sent a simple acknowledgement of receipt - I'll forward it to the member list.
15:18:02 [nigel]
nigel: It's now at
15:18:12 [nigel]
pal: I think that's sufficient.
15:18:50 [nigel]
nigel: Apologies for not sending that to the member reflector earlier.
15:19:11 [nigel]
15:19:11 [trackbot]
action-369 -- Nigel Megitt to Collate smpte issues and draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a precursor to a liaison -- due 2015-02-05 -- OPEN
15:19:11 [trackbot]
15:19:21 [nigel]
This is a work in progress - I'm going through it at the moment.
15:19:54 [nigel]
nigel: I've collated the issues together and need to go through TTML2 to derive the draft
15:19:56 [nigel]
... dispositions.
15:20:38 [nigel]
pal: We should respond to the member comments about the DECE tests, which don't include
15:20:57 [nigel]
... the expected results, so a brief message asking for those test criteria would be worthwhile.
15:21:47 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks pal for the draft words - I'm happy to send that as is, to our liaison, who is Mike.
15:22:07 [nigel]
Action: nigel Send DECE liaison asking for IMSC 1 test criteria
15:22:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-370 - Send dece liaison asking for imsc 1 test criteria [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-02-12].
15:22:58 [nigel]
Topic: Face 2 Face
15:23:25 [nigel]
nigel: We discussed this last week - any updates on hosting?
15:23:38 [nigel]
jdsmith: I'm discussing this still and am optimistic. 9th and 10th April?
15:23:45 [nigel]
nigel: Yes. those are the dates.
15:24:13 [glenn]
i'll dial back on another line
15:24:18 [Zakim]
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15:25:28 [nigel]
glenn: I have a tentative approval to look into it by a funding source so I need to contact
15:25:42 [nigel]
... a couple of hotels in Vegas and get a price on a room for budget assessment.
15:25:48 [nigel]
... I'll do that today or tomorrow.
15:26:02 [nigel]
jdsmith: If I were hosting it would be in Redmond.
15:28:23 [nigel]
nigel: It seems a bit more practical for some folk if we are in Vegas so I propose to make that
15:28:40 [nigel]
... the primary location, and if it isn't available then we take Jerry's kind offer secondarily.
15:28:57 [nigel]
jdsmith: Sure. I'll line it up just in case.
15:31:19 [nigel]
nigel: Just checking, is it okay for a non-member org to sponsor this?
15:31:29 [nigel]
tmichel: I don't see why it would be a problem - I'll get back to you in a few days.
15:31:57 [nigel]
nigel: Is Netflix a member of W3C?
15:32:04 [nigel]
several: yes they are
15:32:10 [Zakim]
15:32:33 [Zakim]
15:32:42 [nigel]
Action: nigel Create a meeting page on the wiki for the F2F
15:32:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-371 - Create a meeting page on the wiki for the f2f [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-02-12].
15:34:01 [nigel]
Topic: TTML2 FPWD publication
15:34:59 [nigel]
nigel: Glenn has provided a zip with the FPWD in. It has some link errors to rectify.
15:35:12 [nigel]
glenn: I'll process those this morning, and then provide a publishable version suitable for
15:35:16 [nigel]
... publication on the 10th.
15:35:30 [nigel]
tmichel: There are also namespace issues as well as the broken links. Maybe put some special
15:35:37 [nigel]
... placeholder text in for the namespace?
15:35:50 [nigel]
glenn: I'll handle that - it should be easy enough. Just a reminder - we're not changing the
15:36:11 [nigel]
... namespace for TTML2. It's the same as TTML1. So we may not need to do anything there.
15:36:25 [nigel]
tmichel: Thank you. Apart from that the publication request is ready to go as soon as I receive
15:36:37 [nigel]
... the edited draft. So send it to me by email as an attachment or something like that.
15:36:40 [nigel]
glenn: okay.
15:37:50 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC Test Suite
15:38:00 [nigel]
pal: I think the next step is to request the additional information from DECE and then I think
15:38:12 [nigel]
... it will be substantially complete, so maybe we can discuss how to reach out more formally
15:38:28 [nigel]
... to other organisations to suggest that they come and try it. It would be good to wait for the
15:38:34 [nigel]
... extra information from DECE.
15:39:01 [nigel]
Topic: Issues
15:39:12 [nigel]
15:39:12 [trackbot]
issue-210 -- The values for alpha in rgba() don't correspond to CSS3 Color definitions -- pending review
15:39:12 [trackbot]
15:39:55 [nigel]
glenn: We did the RGBA values before CSS3 color was finalised - this has to do with the alpha
15:40:22 [nigel]
... values. When CSS got around to doing RGBA they used 0-255 values for alpha, which is different.
15:40:34 [nigel]
... I propose to close this without action because this can be dealt with as part of the process
15:40:47 [nigel]
... to map to HTML/CSS. It's worth emphasising the difference in the text to make authors and
15:40:51 [nigel]
... users aware of it.
15:40:55 [nigel]
nigel: Is it in the text now?
15:41:06 [nigel]
glenn: There's no note that emphasises the difference. I could add that easily enough.
15:41:42 [nigel]
nigel: I agree it's helpful to put that in.
15:42:26 [nigel]
reopen issue-210
15:42:26 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-210.
15:42:55 [nigel]
issue-210: [meeting 2015-02-05] Resolution is to add an editorial note to readers highlighting the difference in scale of alpha value.
15:42:55 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-210 The values for alpha in rgba() don't correspond to CSS3 Color definitions.
15:43:08 [nigel]
15:43:08 [trackbot]
issue-224 -- Support text placement in 3D coordinate spaces (not zIndex compositing). -- pending review
15:43:08 [trackbot]
15:44:05 [nigel]
glenn: It's my intention to update the tts:disparity to permit negative values now.
15:45:35 [nigel]
nigel: Negative values make the image appear further away.
15:45:59 [nigel]
pal: That's correct - it has to be used sparingly though for viewer comfort. To be clear, I'd look
15:46:06 [nigel]
... at the SMPTE spec which is consistent with the CEA spec too.
15:46:14 [nigel]
nigel: It's also consistent in sign with the ETSI spec.
15:46:46 [nigel]
issue-224: [meeting 2015-02-05] Needs to support negative values.
15:46:46 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-224 Support text placement in 3D coordinate spaces (not zIndex compositing)..
15:46:52 [nigel]
reopen issue-224
15:46:52 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-224.
15:47:01 [nigel]
15:47:01 [trackbot]
issue-283 -- Deterministic text wrapping and presentation -- pending review
15:47:01 [trackbot]
15:48:11 [nigel]
nigel: Glenn's proposal is that the option of downloadable fonts gets us as far as we can along
15:48:24 [nigel]
... this path. I don't have any further proposals.
15:49:17 [nigel]
glenn: I noticed that there's a notice from pal from Nov 2013 to add informative text on controlling
15:49:32 [nigel]
... line breaks. I didn't notice that before. Is there any specific wording?
15:50:04 [nigel]
pal: I can imagine that the wording should be something along the lines that line breaks
15:50:27 [nigel]
... should be manually inserted with <br>s to achieve the desired expectation?
15:50:44 [nigel]
nigel: If you set tts:wrap="noWrap" then it's true that this defines the line breaks completely.
15:50:52 [nigel]
glenn: I'm not averse to adding a note here.
15:51:19 [nigel]
pal: So maybe that note isn't so useful because of that.
15:52:47 [nigel]
nigel: From my perspective it would be worth highlighting that fonts are helpful but not the
15:53:04 [nigel]
... whole story. The author might want to leave some extra margin for safety to ensure that the
15:53:17 [nigel]
... region is big enough to hold the text as the author intended it to be displayed.
15:53:32 [nigel]
... This is regardless of the use of automatic or manual line breaks.
15:53:55 [nigel]
glenn: I can imagine adding a note to the section that describes UAX14 wrapping.
15:54:06 [nigel]
... It's §11.3.2.
15:54:37 [nigel]
... "Line Layout". We could add a note under that, for authorial techniques for dealing with line
15:54:40 [nigel]
... breaks.
15:55:36 [nigel]
nigel: I think that's a good idea - it's helpful to provide information to minimise the impact of
15:55:50 [nigel]
... undefined implementation algorithms.
15:56:30 [nigel]
issue-283: [meeting 2015-02-05] Resolution: add an editorial note to guide authors and implementors to §11.3.2 Line Layout.
15:56:30 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-283 Deterministic text wrapping and presentation.
15:56:36 [nigel]
reopen issue-283
15:56:36 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-283.
15:57:25 [nigel]
15:57:25 [trackbot]
issue-289 -- For TTML created for overlay on top of video, signal the aspect ratio of the video the TTML was created for -- pending review
15:57:25 [trackbot]
15:58:01 [nigel]
glenn: For both this one and issue-290 I added a ttm:item name that are in the current draft for review.
15:58:10 [nigel]
... It was my intention that those metadata items will address this issue.
15:58:30 [nigel]
... Also, it's somewhat related to the new ttp:parameter called storageAspectRatio so they could
15:58:42 [nigel]
... be viewed as related and some additional text may be needed to both places in the document
15:58:55 [nigel]
... to explain why both exist and how they relate to each other and what the usage is.
16:01:07 [Zakim]
16:01:21 [nigel]
nigel: The format doesn't explain the value syntax - that's tbd.
16:01:25 [nigel]
16:01:58 [nigel]
nigel: That holds it up though - we need that to complete the issue.
16:02:55 [nigel]
glenn: We have an Editorial Note for this so that's not needed.
16:04:35 [nigel]
nigel: I'm happy with the process overhead of keeping the issue open
16:04:48 [nigel]
nigel: I think there's a review comment on this that the syntax is important - to do.
16:05:27 [Zakim]
16:05:28 [Zakim]
16:05:31 [Zakim]
- +1.650.458.aaaa
16:05:47 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks all, have a good week until we meet again, same time next week. [adjourns meeting]
16:06:03 [nigel]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:06:08 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:06:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate nigel
16:06:14 [Zakim]
16:06:14 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were jdsmith, nigel, +1.650.458.aaaa, +1.720.897.aabb, glenn, tmichel
16:08:12 [nigel]
Regrets+ Frans
16:09:25 [nigel]
s/i'll dial back on another line/
16:12:01 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:12:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate nigel
16:13:15 [nigel]
ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
16:13:17 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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nigel_ has joined #tt
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