<trackbot> Date: 02 December 2014

<clown> agenda: this

<joanie> scribenick: joanie

agenda+ ACTION-1254: (Joseph) Consume/cancel keydown event when keypress is consumed/cancelled.

<clown> action-1245?

<trackbot> action-1245 -- Michael Cooper to Review CSS Cascading and Inheritance Level 3 http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css-cascade-3-20130730/ -- due 2013-08-14 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1245

<clown> action-1254

<trackbot> action-1254 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Work with WebApps working group to ensure that DOM spec states when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled. -- due 2014-11-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1254

JS: I meant to do this this morning.
... It will be done by next week.
... [Reads action text]
... I was supposed to send an email to Travis L.
... I was also going to create a test case.
... I'll put the due date off 1 week.
... [Requests Travis L's email address]
... If not, I'll try to find out from Cynthia or look through the WebApps group members and see if I can find it.

<clown> action-1409?

<trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2014-11-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409

<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich

<richardschwerdtfeger> joseph: in ATK object you have room for one more method and you don’t want it to be groupPosition()

<scribe> scribenick: joanie

JD: In ATK we have exactly one more new method we can add to AtkObject.
... I really, really, really want to add subrole support to ATK -- more badly than I need group position API.
... Therefore, because of the lack of ability to add further API to AtkObject, GNOME plans to create a new "Accessible" interface (AtkAccessible?)
... That will solve the "lack of pads" problem. But it will not happen this cycle, very likely.

JS: So the conclusion is that for now you are going to leave these as object attributes?

JD: Yes.

JS: Is the new accessible interface going to have group position, etc?

JD: Yes. And much, much more.
... Because the interface approach doesn't have "pads". We can add new API until the cows come home.

JS: I understand all that. To bring it to a close?

JD: Two months please.
... I will try to tackle the AtkAccessible interface draft/whatever this cycle. But no promises.

<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Joanie

ACTION-1396: (Cynthia) UIA mappings for role grid to convey beyond table.

<clown> action-1396

<trackbot> action-1396 -- Cynthia Shelly to Modify uaig to convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table. (atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid, msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?) -- due 2014-11-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396

JS: The issue is, there's an action for me for a while now to put in the mapping to convey the fact that grids are more than just tables.
... I've done these for all the other APIs, along with a draft/proposal MSAA + UIA Express.
... I need Cynthia's feedback/review.

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-grid

JS: What it says now for grid is...

<clown> ROLE_SYSTEM_TABLE + AriaRole="grid"

<clown> ROLE_SYSTEM_TABLE + control type 'grid'

JS: The two solutions are: ROLE_SYSTEM_TABLE + AriaRole = "grid" OR Localized Control Type is grid
... Anyone know enough about UIA express to judge which of those is the right one?

RS: Do they do anything special for treegrid versus grid?

JS: treegrid is mapped to datagrid.
... I remember Cynthia saying datagrid is the only thing available -- for treegrid.

BG: Are there any working examples for treegrid? They're hard to use.

JS: I'll look, but how does that answer the question for UIA Express.

<clown> scribenick: clown

RS: The APIs are different in FF and Safari

JD: I'm not sure of the question.

RS: Are you working on FF and WebKit in terms of exposing on the AAPI layer?

JD: I'm not working on gecko.

RS: Are you staying in sync with FF team?

JD: I'm not sure, but since there is but one ATK/AT-SPI mapping, they should be in sync.

RS: Let me give you an example.
... All the linux mappings were verified with FF.
... Are the webkit to ATK mappings the same?

<joanie> scribenick: joanie

JD: Mapping should be the same. I'm only working on WebKit development-wise. If I find a Gecko bug, I file it.

JS: How does all of this relate to the agenda item?
... Namely, how does UIA Express map grid in a way that expresses that it is interactive?
... I need A UIA Express expert to tell me which of my proposed two options is right.

RS: Are you an expert? Or is there one?

JS: Cynthia. I wouldn't be surprised if Alex knows.

RS: We need someone who is doing the implementations in IE.

BG: What are the differences between treegrid and grid?

JS: My recollection is that datagrid doesn't make a distinction between treegrid and grid.
... Rich, you recall anything different?

BG: Then it should map to the same thing.
... It's almost like they're inheriting from Outline.

JS: [Reads about implemented IA2 interfaces]
... Yes, AX API only maps to AXTable for treegrid.
... I'll bring this back up next week.

<clown> action-1104?

<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104

JS: I doubt that she's answered this either.
... This is needed by the new accessible name document.
... What do you do in UIA?

RS: Should we say what they should do?

JS: Everyone else grabs the text and puts the string in the accessible description field.
... UIA has pointers. And there's nothing to point to due to display:none.
... They have legacy description, but they don't want to do that.

RS: I don't have an answer for you.

JS: Ok, I'll bring this up again next week.

ACTION-1311/ACTION-1444/ACTION-1445: (Joseph, Cynthia) Clarify that presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within tables/lists.

<clown> action-1311?

<trackbot> action-1311 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Clarify that presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within tables/lists; work out in UAIG 1.1 and with implementors/vendors how to resolve this. -- due 2014-11-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311

JS: I'm pretty much ready to take this one on.
... This was caused a long time ago, briefly, because Alex smushed a presentational table into one giant text.
... He's since fixed that.
... There's been a request to add something to the mapping stating not to smush things together.
... My question is, where does this go in the document?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_general

JS: The first possibility is the above section of the document.
... [reads]
... We could add something there along the lines of "if role='presentation' .... do not"
... The other place to put it is the role mapping for presentation.
... What do you guys think?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation

JD: Is this specific to tables and lists?

JS: It applies to anything with required descendants.
... We need to say what happens to them.

RS: A separate non-semantic entity.

JD: Would it make sense to put it under table and list, if those really are the two things they apply to?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#presentation

JS: There's a paragraph at the above URL. (About the 7th paragraph down, not counting the editorial notes.)
... [Reads paragraph starting with "When an explicit or inherited role of presentation is applied to an element with the implicit semantic of a WAI-ARIA role that has required owned elements, in addition to the element with the explicit role of presentation, the user agent must apply an inherited role of presentation to any owned elements that do not have an explicit role defined."]
... I think I could put it in one spot and cover both tables and lists in that one spot.

JD: My real point is put it where we think implementors are likely to look.

[Discussion about the original smushing]

JS: [Reads from Alex's message]
... Where does it say you must not create an accessible object for table with role="presentation"?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#exclude_elements2

JS: It's just a guess but maybe in the above section?
... In which case, perhaps that is where you put this extra information.

RS: So you want to add a new bullet point under 5.1.1?

JS: Or maybe a sub-bullet.

<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435

[Discussion of the above issue]

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1013584

JD: Looking at comment 18, David removed "[ATK]" from the summary which suggests that *maybe* in IA2, they are also now mapped as if they were divs.
... But I don't know.

JS: Looking at the last patch, there's no more "text" roles.
... I need to look at this as a guide to the text I put in.
... I think I'm going to put this text in the initial part of the mapping where it talks about role="presentation".
... Then I'll mark it as "pending review".

ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2 mapping of role="text".

<clown> action-1531

<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531

JS: David's not done this yet. I'll bring it up next week.

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/joanie:/joseph:/
Succeeded: s/group positions/groupPosition()/
Succeeded: s/for UIA/MSAA + UIA Express/
Succeeded: s/RS: We/JS: We/
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Succeeded: s/table/AXTable/
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Found Scribe: Rich
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Found Scribe: Joanie
Inferring ScribeNick: joanie
Found ScribeNick: clown
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Scribes: Rich, Joanie
ScribeNicks: joanie, clown
Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, +1.650.738.aaaa, Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Present: Bryan_Garaventa Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets: David_Bolter
Found Date: 02 Dec 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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