<trackbot> Date: 20 November 2014

<Tav> ??P9 is me

<ed> scribeNick: ed

How to write tests for SVG 2

TS: I'd written a test for tspans, based on svg 1.1 tests
... checked into old repo, not sure it was carried over to the new github repo

CM: the tests were not moved over to github
... we decided that we should move our tests to the w3c web-platform-tests repository
... I was given an action to create a few simple examples for scripted test, a reftest

TS: the old repo had an svg2-tests repository

CM: right, the new github repo only contains the specs, not tests
... once we have sorted out how to put tests on web-platform-tests we will move the tests from svg2-tests

DS: so, heycam, you'll ping james graham for how to get that going, right?

CM: yes

TS: james is the guy behind web-platform-tests?

DS: yes

<Tav> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements

DS: ok, so we will get some beginners documentation

Tav: the page I just pasted in needs to be updated

DS: most instructions should still apply

TS: where in the directory structure tests should go, naming scheme etc, that sort of thing is missing atm

CM: I'll do that

<scribe> ACTION: heycam to write up documentation for directory structure, test naming scheme for the svg tests on web-platform-tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3688 - Write up documentation for directory structure, test naming scheme for the svg tests on web-platform-tests [on Cameron McCormack - due 2014-11-27].

status update

CM: what is the status of svg2 plan?
... based on the TPAC discussions
... what are the most urgent parts?

krit: do as many edits as possible until february, things that aren't done by then get removed

CM: so, should we remove things that are half-written?

krit: we should try to publish more often
... we can delay things until the next revision

<BogdanBrinza> and my mic appears to not be working and I had a plan to drive the investigation of stable vs moving parts

TS: yes, iterating on what we have, to publish 2.1, 2.2 etc

CM: faster turnaround and fewer features sounds good to me

DS: ppl being disappointed about missing features, we need to improve the communication on how we intend to adress this (faster iterations)

krit: we should publish every six weeks

CM: what were the next steps?

<BogdanBrinza> Yes, I'm putting the plan together now

<BogdanBrinza> and would update the action and put this on agenda for next week to figure out what can we do, yes

krit: [something]... by february
... the plan was to publish the LC in feb

<smailus> Asthetically it may be ugly, but communicating that the published version in March 2015 is SVG 2.0 is important to communicate that this isn't the whole "SVG 2" spec.

<BogdanBrinza> LOL I'll make sure to check Hawaii plan as well

CM: I'll wait until next week and pick things off that list
... thank you for the update

focus and navigation

DS: I was comparing focus and navigation from svg 1, 1.2 Tiny and 2.0
... there's been a lot more focus stuff added in 2.0
... it's scattered over the spec, we need to focus it more
... I gave a webinar about svg a11y yesterday

<shepazu> http://schepers.cc/svg/accessibility/focus/

<shepazu> http://schepers.cc/svg/accessibility/focus/focus-tabindex.html

krit: it does work in safari

CM: reason for it not working in firefox is I need to review some patches for tabindex in svg

DS: another issue around tabindex...
... if you look at the first one on the left, tab and it goes in order
... the same on the circles

<BogdanBrinza> it somewhat works in IE..

DS: the ones that light up green have a link
... tried to get it to work, based on an old test i wrote
... worked in chrome
... wasn't satisfied with the wording in the spec
... there's also some bit that defers to html5, I think we should resolve on those things
... out of order tab navigation, when you set the tabindex to a positive number
... the first instance I numbered 0-12 in that order
... in the second one I set them to tabindex=0
... which means order is document order, not in visual order
... apparently there's some probelems with setting to positive values
... current recommendation is for ppl to use tabindex=0
... based on an issue that Florian raised for CSS UI level 3, they're going to move nav-index to level 4

CM: nav-index is similar to tab-index, but in css?

DS: don't know honestly, but I think that's right

CM: I saw the post on the public-svg-wg list about deferring it to level 4

DS: want to know more about it, how should we handle making things focusable
... and navigation
... looking for help to work on focus and navigation, anyone interested?

ED, CM, LJWatson: yes

DS: [...] not exposing the focused element in voice
... we should try to make sure svg2 has these things exposed to a11y apis in SVG
... would like to see that across browsers
... and tests
... public-svg-a11y is the mailinglist
... you can subscribe, or ping me and I'll add you
... the svg-a11y-tf has launched

krit: the work in webkit [...] don't have that much time anymore

DS: we'll figure it out

mailinglist policy

DS: svg was one of the first WGs to do all work in the public
... we wasnt sure how this was going to work at the time, so we setup a parallell mailinglist (public-svg-wg)
... not clear to me that we should use that one
... it's not really public, just publicly readable
... I propose that we close that mailinglist
... and that we do all our work on www-svg

nikos: we already resolved to do that
... we jsut havent executed it

<nikos> http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-svg-minutes.html#item03

CM: sgtm, we may need to upadet some things first
... the repository notification emails
... and [missed]

DS: other groups have tracker go to the public list

CM: that could get noisy

DS: so we could send those to the public-svg-wg list then?

CM: ok, sounds good

RESOLUTION: we will deactivate public-svg-wg, keeping the archives, repository changes will go to the w3c-svg-wg and tracker + technical discussions to www-svg

DS: agenda items should also go to www-svg

<heycam> ScribeNick: heycam

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda

paint server rendering when objectBoundingBox is zero

ISSUE-2416

<trackbot> ISSUE-2416 -- Consider allowing zero height or width bbox gradients, and/or adjusting the bbox for stroke to be the actual stroke region -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2416

ed: this is an old issue we've had open for a while
... I recently came across this while browsing bug reports for Chrome and Opera
... I created a test

<ed> http://jsfiddle.net/e7o46dgL/

ed: this is to show that current implementations render paint servers even if the shape element has an empty bounding box
... the spec doesn't agree with this

krit: we did have a test for it?
... a line with a gradient or stroke, and it was black
... I remember having to implement it for Cairo because it could not render it

ed: that's the only browser I haven't tested
... if you have Safari there?
... I think we should update the spec to say that it should render

<ed> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/coords.html#ObjectBoundingBoxUnits

ed: the last para in that section

krit: did you test with gradients?

ed: should be the same thing

krit: not necessarily

ed: they're both in terms of the bounding box

krit: but they can be implemented differently
... there's a difference between how graphics libraries handle gradients and patterns
... with the assumption that it has the same behaviour for gradients, I agree with your change

ed: and if not?

krit: go with the majority

ed: for animation, it doesn't make sense that fill or stroke goes missing if it's zero sized bbox

heycam: was this one of the 1.1 errata issues?

ed: don't know that it was
... the spec text doesn't call out patterns explicitly

<ed> "When the geometry of the applicable element has no width or height and objectBoundingBox is specified, then the given effect (e.g., a gradient or a filter) will be ignored."

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/coords.html#ObjectBoundingBoxUnits

ed: there's an additional sentence in SVG 2

heycam: I agree with your proposal

ed: if you animate a straight line, rotating, you don't expect the paint server to stop applying at a certain point
... maybe not the transform itself, but adjusting x1/y1/etc.
... I'm fine with creating a few more test cases for gradients, and filters as well

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to make some tests for gradients on zero-sized bbox [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3689 - Make some tests for gradients on zero-sized bbox [on Erik Dahlström - due 2014-11-27].

thanks for calling in stakagi and birtles, sorry about the new telcon time! :)

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: ed
Found ScribeNick: heycam
Inferring Scribes: ed, heycam
Scribes: ed, heycam
ScribeNicks: ed, heycam
Default Present: krit, [IPcaller], birtles, Thomas_Smailus, stakagi, heycam, ed, nikos, [Microsoft], Doug_Schepers, Tav, TabAtkins
Present: Dirk Leonie Brian Thomas Satoru Cameron Erik Nikos Bogdan Doug Tav Tab
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2014OctDec/0066.html
Found Date: 20 Nov 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: erik heycam