W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

07 Oct 2014

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
AWK, Joshue, adam_solomon, Marc_Johlic, +1.571.389.aaaa, cstrobbe, Michael_Cooper, Kathy_Wahlbin, jon_avila, Brent_Shiver, David_MacDonald, Loretta, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
Regrets
Bruce_Bailey, Mike_Elledge
Chair
AWK
Scribe
Marc, marcjohlic

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 07 October 2014

<Joshue> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 07 October 2014

<Joshue> Chair: AWK

<AWK> everything is set

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<AWK> Scribe: Marc

<marcjohlic> scribe: marcjohlic

Public Survey update

<Joshue> scribe list updated

AWK: Shawn sent announcement to gl list that new survey is out
... 53 responses so far - not overwhelming, but useful collection

<AWK> Survey link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xqB54kJ7PfH8g2BWp3ww7HpXXcLhySSfE0aW1Re2gcU/viewform?usp=send_form

AWK: Please encourage folks to provide feedback on survey

TPAC reminder

AWK: If you have not registered, and will be attending, pls register ASAP
... Helps the W3C planners to get the registrations in

MC: Need to sort out travel logistics for Sunday meeting
... Location, travel arrangements etc

<AWK> Sunday meeting is at Google

LG: Meeting will be in Googleplex
... Believe it's about 15 mins from TPAC location to Google

<Loretta> Christophe, there are about 25 Google buildings in this area!

<Joshue> MJ: Isn't today the last day before the fee increase?

<AWK> registration form: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/

AWK: Fee increase after Oct 8

<Loretta> The address is 2375 Garcia Ave, Mountain View, CA 94043

WCAG folks currently registeted: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/registrants#WCAG

Survey for October 7, 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141007Misc/

<jon_avila> Survey wasn't opened yet when I tried last week.

2. [LC-2966] Proposal to review guidelines for language markup appropriateness

<Joshue> no]

RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed

3. [LC-2953] F55: Remove Example 3 as it's same as Example 2

LG: Very similar examples

<Joshue> +q

MC: Different enough to keep them separate, but not horrible to combine them. There should be a clear benefit to any edits - not confident that there is strong enough reason to change this one.

JOC: There is no alt on Ex 2 - is that part of the Failure?
... Just want to call out the missing alt

AWK: No objection to combining them - other question would be if we have people doing localization work will something like this be worth their effort (or how often that happens)

<jon_avila> Don't have strong feelings either

<Joshue> +1 to leaving it as is

JOC: OK with leaving it as is - can't see the net gain in changing it

AWK: Anyone feel strongly that it should be removed?

<adam_solomon_> having major internet connection problems - will try to get online for lc-2954

no response

JOC: Will write / update the response

+1

RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended (rejecting the suggested change)

4. Mobile TF proposed changes to G9

AWK: Sounds like folks generally like the gist of these changes

LG: Some grammatical changes

<jon_avila> We chose webinar because we thought people could relate to it.

<Joshue> LC-2953 response updated.

AWK: Initially this started out as a live event that you are at personally and that the captioning was being provided to your own mobile device. Was changed to webinar where folks could join webinar to receive captions

MC: Not clear how mobile device vs desktop device is different in here
... Believe my rewording covers that

AWK: WCAG doesn't apply to a physical event but does apply to an online event

<AWK> original: A live conference is streaming audio-video webinar for remote participants using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning).

KW: The whole idea of adding some mobile stuff to general is so that we are not desktop specific w/ our General techniques - but mobile also. So we are trying to add some mobile specific examples in

<AWK> A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning).

MC: Don't object to that - but feels weird to have the mobile example be parenthetical - may need to weave the mobile focused example(s) in better

<Joshue> Interesting comment michael

MC: OK - I didn't get from the wording that getting the captions through their mobile device was helpful

KW: They might be streaming the online conference / webinar to their mobile device. We're not saying they are using desktop and mobile device at the same time

JN: Why wouldn't the captions be part of that same stream?
... I struggle to see how it's specific to mobile

KW: It was just an example to show that this is something that can be done on mobile
... We do have a lot of specific things that reference "desktop"

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say that we do need to expand the reach of our techniques where possible to illustrate that they are useful and relevant in the mobile space

<AWK> A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is including captions via use of Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART). Users can access the content on a desktop or mobile device, and this also helps on-site participants needing captioning who can view the captions for the event on their own device.

JOC: We need to find the right tone - generic enough w/ descriptions of technologies

<Joshue> Should we be mentioning desktop at all?

AWK: Some people who caption online event they don't think about mobile devices - so with this change it's providing small bit of education to folks that captioning on mobile is important also
... Does this change help?

MC: Not trying to block moving forward - but think it's a matter of clarity of what we're trying to say.. not sure of better wording

<AWK> A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is including captions via use of Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART). Users can access the content on a desktop or mobile device. An additional benefit is that this can also help on-site participants needing captioning who can view the captions for the event on their own device.

JN: Split last sentence "additional benefit
... ONly see 2 references to "desktop" when searching

KW: But there are desktop specific references throughout - such as "corner of the screen"

<Loretta> brb

<Joshue> How about "Users can access the content on any device including mobile devices,[..]

<jon_avila> "desktop" also appears in the Understanding documents http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-visual-presentation.html

<AWK> how about: A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is including captions via use of Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART). An additional benefit is that this can also help on-site participants needing captioning who can view the captions for the event on their own device.

DM: If we specifically call out mobile now - in 3 or 4 years it might seem out of place

<jamesn> +1

<Joshue> +1 to AWKS text but I'd like to tease out this issue a little more so we have can have some WG consensus on the approach.

JOC: Comfortable with using language like AWK added - using "devices"
... Don't feel like you can't use "mobile" but like using generic terms to avoid dating the material

<AWK> A user watches an online seminar on their mobile device, including captioning provided by the provider through the use of Communication Access Real-time Translation (CART).

<Joshue> +1 to the later

AWK: Folks like user-centric or event focused - or leave open?

<Kathy> later one

<Joshue> MJ: I like the later one also

MC: Last one is fine

JOC: Want to make sure my comments don't confuse the issue going forward

<AWK> A user watches an online seminar on their mobile device, including captioning provided through the use of Communication Access Real-time Translation (CART). The captions provided also benefit in-person participants who need captioning and can view the information on their own device.

KW: Different than initial direction - these should just be small changes - want to make sure they don't all cause this much need for discussion

JA: Regarding user-based example, have a concern because this technique is about creating captions - not how the user consumes them.

AWK: Good point

RESOLUTION: Leave open - discuss language

1. [LC-2954] Clarify F68 is applicable for controls that use visible labels

AWK: I put together an alternative approach - put it in a wiki page

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/F68_edits

DM: Do we need to say anything about placeholder text - or opens another can of worms

AWK: another can of worms - but we will need to talk about that another time

JN: Visible text needs to match associated label - but I don't see that in here

AWK: Correct - and that is why it is not a 1.3.1 technique

JA: Concerned that we don't have a Failure for form fields and visual labels - so we may need to add another failure

JN: Hard failure to write

JA: Not against this change - makes it more clear - but think we should consider additional techniques

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/input.html

AWK: Do people like the general idea of this - paired w/ an add'l 1.3.1 technique to be written?

+1

<AWK> ACTION: AWK to edit https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/F68_edits based on comments from today's call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-283 - Edit https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/techniques/f68_edits based on comments from today's call [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-10-14].

RESOLUTION: Leave open pending Action-283

5. Mobile TF proposed changes to G21

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G21

KW: Notes on WCAG sections (wiki page) is old - just refer to the Proposed changes

MC: That's fine - wasn't clear when initially looking at what was in the wiki
... Good with changes

RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed

6. Mobile TF proposed changes to G78

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G78

KW: Again notes were just for TF reference - changes are under "Proposed" section(s)

JOC: Any objections to Loretta's suggestion to make it clear that this is about controls in the content

<Kathy> 1.Check that the audio track that includes audio descriptions can be turned on by using a control within the content itself or by selecting a preference (such as a button to toggle audio description) in the media player @@or operating system@@.

<Joshue> what about "accessible via using a control within the content itself"?

<Joshue> "can be accessed [...]"

<Loretta> Check that a mechansim exists to turn on the audio track that includes audio descriptions.

RESOLUTION: Leave open

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: AWK to edit https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/F68_edits based on comments from today's call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
 
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Succeeded: s/AWK:  Don't/MC:  Don't/
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Found Scribe: Marc
Found Scribe: marcjohlic
Inferring ScribeNick: marcjohlic
Scribes: Marc, marcjohlic
Default Present: AWK, Joshue, adam_solomon, Marc_Johlic, +1.571.389.aaaa, cstrobbe, Michael_Cooper, Kathy_Wahlbin, jon_avila, Brent_Shiver, David_MacDonald, Loretta, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
Present: AWK Joshue adam_solomon Marc_Johlic +1.571.389.aaaa cstrobbe Michael_Cooper Kathy_Wahlbin jon_avila Brent_Shiver David_MacDonald Loretta [IPcaller] James_Nurthen
Regrets: Bruce_Bailey Mike_Elledge
Found Date: 07 Oct 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: awk

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