See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 11 July 2014
<KimPatch> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/New_WCAG_2.0_Techniques
<KimPatch> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results
<KimPatch> Mike Shebanek introducing himself, senior director for accessibility at Yahoo, managing team that does evaluations for accessibility on web and apps. Spent 19 years at Apple, voiceover, iPad product manager
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
<KimPatch> Kathy: we have been working on identifying what techniques are needed for mobile, both from mobile app and mobile web perspective. We started by going through mobile accessibility guidelines, techniques – marked which ones we felt could be modified, could benefit from a mobile example, or requires some changes. There's also a lot of techniques that are applicable as is, so we marked the...
<KimPatch> ...ones that were applicable as is and the ones that require changes. This is on the wiki.
<KimPatch> Kathy: then we took a look at the mobile accessibility guidelines – BBC, IBM, Funka Nu, to see things from those that are missing. We also did a brainstorm. The survey we are going through today is all the techniques that we have identified. What we are doing now is seeing which should be a technique, or a best practice, and what it would apply to in WCAG.
<KimPatch> Kathy: we are nearly done with the survey. From there we will summarize it and put it in a list of things that we need to work on to come up with a good set. As we go through it doesn't mean we can't add new techniques or identify things that are missing – we expect that that will be the case, but this is a good starting place for us to create the techniques that are needed.
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq26
<KimPatch> Kathy: there's been a lot of talk about how we're going to integrate this – we started discussions on that and very quickly came to the conclusion that we needed to know the scope of what we were looking at first. We wanted to be usable for developers to really get in there and know what's applicable and what's important for mobile so we have to think about how to structure that. We have...
<KimPatch> ...some limitations about what we can do – that's something we're going to have to get approval for from the WCAG and UAAG working groups – they are the sponsoring groups for this task force and we regularly go back to those groups. That's part of the next step to.
<KimPatch> Mike: trying to understand targets – native apps, webpages, but how about apps that look like native apps but our web delivery – are we comprehending all three of those or just native apps or just web?
<KimPatch> Kathy: keeping in mind all of them – we may decide to focus on mobile web first and then tackle mobile apps – we have to define that as a group and get feedback from the working groups as well in our next steps. The next biggest chunk is summarize what we've got so far, agree on it within this task force, then go back to the working groups and I'm sure we will have a number of discussions...
<KimPatch> ...around what to do with apps, hybrid apps and web.
<scribe> Scribe: Jan
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq26
Kathy: Referring to "hamburger
menu"
... Tech is simply to add that open vs close info to the icon
for this pattern
... Jonathon says Not clear about this -- if the menu is opened
wouldn't that be apparent?
... Detlev says I think this should be expressed more
generically so it applies both to content that is revealed like
ccordions and to dropdowen menus (some just an icon, others
linking to the main section).
Mike: I think it should be more generic
Alan: Maybe "open/close" state of a toggle
Detlev: Agrees
Mike: I think it of a hide/show
kathy: Maybe give three examples under this...accordian, menu button
s/Gavine/Gavin
Kathy: Anything that has hide/show state, we want the state communicated
Jan: aria-expanded....
Gavin: But no ARIA in native apps
Mike: Right, there are tabs e.g.
1 of 3
... Page indicator in iOS...dots on screen
Jan: Are we writing general here? Or iOS, Android, Web
Gavin: Or Windows 8
Kathy: So under 4.1.2....and 1.3.1
All: OK
Resolution: Provide the Hide/show state. Sufficient under 4.1.2 and 1.3.1.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq28
Kathy: Came from Funka Nu
... Not sure if this is still a major issue
Alan: Not sure why this is there
Mike: In OS10, this is a
significant issue....
... Work around is to magnify the entire screen
... Not sure how this affects mobile as much
Gavin: I've found problem in
overlays etc when try to pinch and zoom due to fixed point
size
... But depends how menu is implemented
Jan: Are we really talking about reflowing at 200%...not just getting there?
Mike: If you have some overlay it should scale at the same rate as other things
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#visual-audio-contrast-scale
http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/G142
Jan: Maybe we are talking about text-only 200% zoom
<AlanSmith> Sorry , need to drop call. Being asked to join another call for work.
<AlanSmith> thank you.
Mike: Idea is that default text
size needs to go to 3x or whatever
... The menu and overlay pinch...
Gavin: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/F69
... There is already a failure for this
Jan: Maybe we should add to that and talk about overlays
<KimPatch> Potential solution: sufficient technique under 1.4.4 but specifically adding two F 69, Modify to say resizing in general not just text resize
Gavin: Just wondering if there is anything in the MWBP?
Kathy: Can you look and get back to us at the next call?
Mike: Is 200% sufficient on small mobile device?
Kathy: Good point
Jan: Maybe we can add an advisory tech about going beyond 200%
Kathy: Other point is minimum font size...
Jan: Best measurement unit is pt
Mike: But be careful with small phones vs. tablets
<scribe> ACTION: Jan to research a table of pt values vs. viewing distance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-17 - Research a table of pt values vs. viewing distance [on Jan Richards - due 2014-07-18].
<scribe> ACTION: Gavin to look at MWBP re: text resize [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-18 - Look at mwbp re: text resize [on Gavin Evans - due 2014-07-18].
<gavinevans> thanks everyone
<Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
<Kathy> chair: Kathy
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) FAILED: s/Detleve/Gavin/ Succeeded: s/Detlev/Gavin/ Found Scribe: Jan Inferring ScribeNick: Jan WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Alan AlanSmith All Detlev Gavin Jan KimPatch Mike gavinevans https kathy trackbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Regrets: Detlev Jonathan_Avila Kathleen_Anderson Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Jul/0000.html Found Date: 11 Jul 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: gavin jan WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]